Winchester Short Mag

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gravedigger, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. gravedigger

    gravedigger Well-Known Member

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    I have read several opinions on putting the WSM cartridges in the Encore. I know of at least one barrel builder that is chambering these in an Encore, at least two others say it is not safe. Does anybody have any real idea what is safe and what is not. I don't intend on buying one but several of my friends have purchased these calibers in Encore barrels. Lets just call it curiosity, I would appreciate any reply anyone has. THANK YOU
     
  2. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    I was told that the Encore will handle factory loads OK but has a problem when the hotter test loads are used. Seems the straight sided cases do not have as much adhesion as is required in the Encore and you get too much bolt head thrust. Would make for a fine rifle but T/C is taking the cautious route - wisely I am sure.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    358Winchester,

    I had a customer bring in a Virgin Valley 300 WSM Encore and he was having problems with case head seperations just above the case web and always on the top of the chambered case.

    I knew exactly what it was because I had Virgin Valley build me an Encore many years ago chambered in 7.21 Tomahawk from Lazzeroni. Basically the same thing as a 7mm WSM but a bit shorter and a bit fatter yet.

    My tomahawk was scary accurate but did the exact same thing, severe case stretching on the case head at the top of the chambered case.

    The reason, excessive frame flexing in the Encore. The 300 WSM the customer had brought had been shot enough to have permenantly damaged the frame and it had to be replaced.

    In my opinion, from shooting the Encores ALOT. The Belted Magnum case head diameter should be considered max with modern high pressure loadings and I much prefer to see the '06 case head size used in this design.

    I know there are chamberings for the 416 Rigby, even factory offerings I believe but these are designed to be loaded to very low pressures.

    Even then, I had severe stretching with my Tomahawk.

    My recommendation, if you want 300 WSM levels of performance in the Encore, take a hard look at the 30-06 AI. In a properly dimensioned chamber designed for modern '06 case dimensions, you will match that the 300 WSM will get with the 30-06 AI chambering and it is MUCH better suited to the Encore design.

    Just what I have seen playing the game with the Encore. Great rifle but you must stay within the limits of the design and I recommend staying well within them for best performance.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    I think that you just answered another question that I have
    been wondering about since the Pro Hunter 28" was introduced. I thought about buying a 7RM barrel &amp; having it re-chambered to 7STW. If I understand correctly you are saying in the belted case it would work but not optimum, right? Maybe if they bring out a 7-08 in this barrel if they
    haven't already I could get it re-chambered to 280AI, slower but not bad in a 28". It should at least match a 7RM in a 24" bolt gun I would hope.
     
  5. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Ditto on Kirby's thoughts.
    With that being said, I don't have a problem with someone chambering a WSM in a Encore as long as they realize it's limitations and load accordingly.
    MGM is currently chambering for the WSM's. They make the point that the early factory ammo was loaded to much higher pressure than current factory ammo.
    You can even push a 338 WM to the same point as Kirby did the lazz case (been there &amp; done that!).
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Nomosendero,

    You can chamber the Encore for the 7mm STW just fine as well as all the other belted magnum cases on the standard magnum case(H&amp;H based). But realize that if you push things to the upper pressure limits you will most likely see case head stretching.

    Depending on how your barrel to frame fit is, you will also probably see some case head stretching with any load.

    I found that to get good chambering with my Encore, the cases had to be FL size totally to bump the shoulder. This just added to the short case life.

    I even marked my cases so that I could chamber then the exact same every time in an attempt to keep every case orientated the exact same way for each firing to try to neck size only or partial FL size but that did not work.

    Came to the conclusion that for the sake of easy loading, the '06 case head is as large as I would ever own in an Encore handgun or rifle.

    You can chamber the belted magnums, just realize that you will probably see some case stretching and shortened case life.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. gravedigger

    gravedigger Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking of getting a .300 win. mag, are you saying that would not be safe.
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    No there really is not a safety issue here. Well, not as long as you keep an eye on your cases and watch for case wall thinning.

    Worst case you will have case head seperation and with a belted magnum case, there is very little danger in this as the belt is behind where the case may seperate sealing the gas leak. This is one good design aspect of the belted magnum case!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif About the only one though.

    I am not trying to start a panic here with the Encores and belted magnum cases. Just watch the case walls just ahead of the web and you will be fine. When they start thinning, throw them away and start with fresh brass.

    You will just have to do this more often then you would with a bolt rifle or something of similiar rigidity is all.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. gravedigger

    gravedigger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information gentlemen, I will think and use it accordingly, again THANK YOU.