wildcat bullets

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by chris matthews, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Thought I might share a bit of interesting info to everybody. Len was kind enough to send me a box of 6.5 mm Wildcat bullets to try out. Was kinda slow in doing it but had a 1000 yd BR match yesterday so I loaded some up for my new BR light gun in 6.5 WSM. Well to make a long story short- I dusted them!!!!!
    4 out of 6 did not make it to the target.
    Velocity with the Lapua Scenar's and Cauterucio's was running 3155 fps for comparision out of a 30" Broughton 5C barrel.
     
  2. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how you dusted them but if you say you did I wont argue with you. I am having great luck with mine at higher velocities though a different caliber. Maybe Richard should be asked of his opinion there may have been a mistake or something in that batch.
     

  3. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    By dusted you mean they came apart? Ive used Richards 30cal. 230gr. ULD's in my 300 win mag with great success. I now have a 6.5-284 that Im going to try his bullets in. I would like input from others who have tried them. I did learn that you need to inside ream to get donuts out with the rebated boat tails. I have to agree on something being wrong here. The two that made it, how did they look/print?
     
  4. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Chris,
    I will be trying some of Richard's bullets in a 7mm WSM specialty handgun in the future.
    Little OT here, but it was good meeting you at Pella this past weekend.
    Also, my daughter is now HOOKED on 1k shooting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    She asked me what it would take to get a LG ready for nationals. She also thought what you did during the first awards ceremony was great. Hope to see you in Iowa again.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Chris,

    What twist are you using and what bullet did you test. Was the load confirmed at closer range first or just on 1K targets?

    The reason I ask is that some of the wildcat bullets really do not like lower pressure loads and can shoot very poorly until the pressure gets up to near max. If these were 142 gr ULDs and your only getting 3100 fps in a 30" pipe your running pretty low pressure. May try to bump up the pressure and test at 300 yards to confirm grouping and then step back to 1000.

    This has just been my experience with a few of the Wildcat bullets. They generally shoot better the harder you drive them.

    I have shot them in my XP-100 6.5 WSM 15" 1-8 twist 3 groove with great results but then again we are talking about 1/2 the barrel length.

    I have also tested them in my 6.5-06 AI and loaded them to 3100 fps which was a warm load and shot very tight groups out to 500 yards but did not test at 1000 yards.

    I have also tested the 140 gr BC FB and could not drive them hard enough in either to get great groups. In the 6.5-06 AI rifle the very top loads were grouping under 3/4 moa but thats about it.

    Richard said these bullets really need a hard kick in the rear to shoot well. May be something to look at.

    I would still be curious to see if they cut paper at say 200 or 300 yards as it would suprise me if they are actually coming apart but they may be. Never shot them in a 5C before so that part of it is out of my relm of experience.

    Let us know what you find out!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Kirby -- if they blew up i dont think MORE POWDER is the answer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Chris -- were these the 142's??

    JB
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    jb1000br,

    I do not believe they did blow up. That is why I asked how they performed at 200 and 300 yards.

    I have seen this with some wildcat bullets. At low pressure loads they did not shoot overly well at 100 to 200 yards, at 1000 yards they would not even come close to the target board.

    But with higher pressure loads they shot much better. THis is the logic I was using, just trying to find out what is happening.

    I had a customer with a 22-6mm AI I built for him on one of my Extreme V-Block rifles. This thing would average 3/4" groups at 500 yards, hell of a shooter. Sent it home with the customer and a week later he came back saying it was dusting the 80 gr Wildcat Bullets.

    After some testing, I discovered that the bullets were not coming apart, only loosing stability and the reason was because the customer had not performed a barrel break in on the barrel and there was a severe amount of copper fouling just ahead of the throat.

    This was swaging the bullets down slightly in diameter and as a result tumbling all over hell after 15 shots or so.

    Cleaned the bore to the bare steel, performed a quality barrel break in and also dropped the load down to around 3450 fps and now it shoots up to 75 rounds with fine accuracy.

    I am not saying that Chris is not doing everything right but what I am saying is that at times, what appears to be a bullet dusting is not that at all and something different may explain the problem.

    I discovered this by shooting the 22-6mm AI at 30 yards on paper and getting nice full profile bullet holes.

    Until There was a shot gun pattern on a close range target I would have a hard time believing that the bullets are acutally coming apart unless a strange or extreme rifling twist is used.

    3100 fps is not overly fast for these bullets even out of a 1-8 barrel.

    Just looking at other possible explainations.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Kirby -- I have heard of clinch rivers blowing at lower velocities, so anything is possible it seems /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Cheers,
    JB
     
  9. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Chris,

    I'd guess you were using a 9 twist bbl but, if not, I'd be curious as to why you went with a faster twist in the 6.5 WSM.
     
  10. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Kirby
    This was at 100 yards during initial load developement- they shot so poorly I didn't waste my time with them at longer ranges. So unless they missed a 4ft x 8 ft new cardboard backer, I am pretty sure they blew up.
    The starting loads shot 3/4 to 1 inch groups and the max loads didn't make it there....so.....
    I am running a 1-8 twist which I know I could use a 1-9 but it's what I had.....
    The others were running 3155 with 66gr of Retumbo- at max pressure- primers are flat and getting slight ejector marks.
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Chris,

    Well this is a strange one!!!

    Your 1-8 should not be a huge issue at the 3150 fps velocity range but maybe it is. I have only tested the 142s in a 1-8 handgun in WSM up to a bit over 2800 fps and they shot great.

    Out of my 6.5-06 AI I did hit 3100 fps but this was a very hot load in the 26" barrel and it has a 1-9 twist so maybe that is the issue here I do not know. Something is not right for sure.

    You have any 1-9 6.5mm rifles youcould test the same bullets in? I would be curious if they performed any differently with the slower twist?

    I believe the 142 gr ULD is built onthe very thin J-4 jacket so maybe it is an issue with rotational stresses???

    Again, I would be very curious how they performed in a 1-9 if you have one laying around the shop???

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Kirby,
    Your right, the thing to do would be shoot it in a 9 twist to see results but unfortunately I don't have one on hand and I am getting really busy building customer rifles so my personal stuff will have to take back seat for awhile....
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Chris,

    I hear ya there. Let us know if you figure anything out.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)