Wildcat bullets consistency and accuracy!

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by 7Rumloader, Apr 12, 2005.

  1. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    I have been working with some .284 wildcats in the 169.5 grain target style bullets with thin jackets and to say the least I have been pleased! The consistency has been great and accuracy is proving the same! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I measured 20 base to ogive and had only 4 to vary from .768 two of which were over .001 and two were under .001! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif The weights were pretty much the same with the average weight being 169.6. This measurement is over the speced 169.5 but was so consistent I don't think it will bother me. I had 5 out of twenty weigh different from the average! Only 5! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I checked some other brands and will say that these wildcats beat them hands down in consistency! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Accuracy is average for my rig but I think with a little more tweaking of seating depth and a few other variables they will be one of if not the most accurate bullet I have put down my tube! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I will have some more info soon and If I can answer any questions I will!
     
  2. Matt27

    Matt27 Well-Known Member

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    7

    Glad they you like them.

    In another thread about Richard's bullets i had measured some bearing lenghths on the remaing bullets i had left and had some deviation that i thought was unusual for his bullets and talked to Richard. He said his die went bad and waiting on a new one.

    Try some differant seating depths and maybe pushing them a little harder *** if you don't see any pressure signs****

    Keep us up to date.
     

  3. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    I got a package of .30 calibers 169.5 RRBT HP yesterday and did some checks last evening. I measured the base to ogive on all 100 bullets, the general variation was plus or minus .001 with one going minus .002 out for a maximum spread of .004...pretty good in my book. I decided I won't worry about base to ogive segregation while loading. I measured overall length and again thay are all very close in length plus or minus a couple thousandths.

    I was suprised that there was no obvious Hollow Point meplat, the bullets appear to be fully encased in copper. I sectioned four of them looking for contruction details and can plainly see the bullets are formed with a closed meplat vice open as in the Sierra MKs.

    I'll test them for precision soon.
     
  4. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Dave you should be pleased with the accuracy on those wildcats. I just made a few calculations and made a couple of test loads and they were shooting half inch right out of the gate! I have some more testing to do when the weather breaks and want to try their accuracy at longer distances also. Will report soon.
     
  5. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    OK I have a little update on my wildcats in .284 and .224.

    The 169.5's are showing good accuracy at extended ranges ( out to 600 so far ). My load of 100 grains of 50 bmg powder is netting an average of 3150 fps( thats minus 50 fps using a shooting chrony and hodgdon lists 3120 for the 168 SMK for the same charge but with 24 inch tube and mine is 26 so I figure that was about right) and under half moa at 100 yards and around 2/3 to 3/4 moa at 600. I'm pleased with these!
    My 45 grain .224 have been shooting great as well! My best loads so far have been 41 grains of H-380 lit with a CCI BR2 which put me in the high 3800 fps range with under half moa at 100 and the load od 33.3 grains of Vihta Vouri N 130 lit by the same primer giving me a 50 to 75 fps advantage over the H-380 powder and 1 tenth smaller groups.
    The 52 grain has performed just as good as the 45 grainers with just a little smaller groups with the same powders as above. I only need to work on my seating depths and then push the targets out further for more testing on these. After I get my loads tailored the way my rifle likes them I'm going to post some pics of the targets and possibly get a few unsuspecting yotes at greater distances for some performance factors on larger game besides birds and cats from one of my earlier posts.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    7RUMloader,

    2/3 to 3/4 moa from basically a factory rifle is very respectible for sure. Congrats on the loading and shooting.

    It s always nice to be working with quality bullets as well. Have you run any drop tests from 100 to 600 yards with this big 169.5? Just curious how they are flying in that big RUM.

    I ordered in a box of those same bullets as a give for a friend but I have not shot them. In fact I believe that was the first box of bullets I ever ordered from Richard!!

    Again, good shooting!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    No drop tests yet Kirby. I spent too much time trying to figure out which mark to use in my reticle for 600 yards with the 169.5. My reticle is setup for 140's going around 3400 fps. I ended up just walking it in and by that time I was out of bullets I had loaded. I'm working up a new batch for a future shoot ( hopefully next weekend ) and will hash out some drop tests then. Were gonna setup at 100, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards and get drops on all the distances. I only carried 20 last time but I'm loading at least 50 this trip so I can get a couple of groups at each distance for averages. I know my velocity is a steady 3150 with my BMG powder and sd and es are good. I can get it a little faster with retumbo but the BMG proves more accurate so I give up the 60, 70 fps for a few thousanths to a tenth smaller groups. I'm working on my 22.250 as well trying to get some long range results on those too! I had put it to the side since the return of my RUM and working OT but it has been dusted off and is ready to go after a little seating depth changing to find the sweet spot. I will keep posting on my findings as I get them.
     
  8. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    Well I got some drop tests done with my 7 RUM out to 600 yards. We set up at 100, 300, 500, and 600 yards. I verified zero at 100 yards then shot one shot at 300 drove down and measured 5 and 1/2 inches low. Cranked my knob to compensate then fired a group of 3 into under 2 inches. ( pic below ) Then I stepped it out to 500 and measured 23 and 1/4 inches low on 2 shots. Cranked my knob for compensation then fired 3 into a 4 inch group with 2 nearly touching and one 4 inches below them. Sat back on the bench and fired 3 shots at 600 to find 7 inches low and a 4 and 1/2 inch group. Compensated with more elevation and fired another 3 shots with 2 touching and #3 blown off the side of the target by the cross wind. Unsure of this group size. All in all I totaled 35 and 3/4 inches drop from 100 to 600 yards with the big 169.5 wildcat. We batteled a cross wind all day that varied from 5 to 15 MPH and the last hour and a half of shooting it changed directions on us!
    Here are some pics.
    The first one is from the trucks looking down the field at the targets. [​IMG]
    This next one is of the 300 yard group. The hole in the bottom came from a 25/06 that was shooting pretty good as well. The bottom left hole was part of a 1 and 1/2 inch group he shot at 300 after mine and the top right came from a 243 with a 22 inch barrel ( small barrel ) printing about 4 inch groups at 300. I'm unsure were that hole just above the orange circle at the bottom left came from. [​IMG]
    Here is the 500 yard group it was off the paper but good none the less! The bottom hole doesn't really look like a hole but I swear it is! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif [​IMG]
    Here are some pics of some of our rifles. Thats my RUM in the top and my buddy johnnyk's 25/06 sendero in the bottom. It wears a 4.5x14 leupold VXIII. [​IMG]
    Here is another buddy's 300 winnie sendero that shoots good as well! All our rigs for today were stock with the exception of the bedding and brake job Kirby did on my RUM. [​IMG]
    Here is a pic of another guy that shoots with us. His is a fast twist 6br that he built in gunsmith school that shoots like a house on fire. (That means very good if your unfamiliar with a little redneck)He's at the bench getting ready to let one go. He also brought out his AR15 with iron sights and shot from the ground at 300 and 600 and did pretty good. [​IMG]
    Here is a pic of him shooting his AR. [​IMG]
    Here is a pic of the small barrel 243 before the shot ( with some of my handloads ) [​IMG]
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    7RUMloader,

    Very nice shooting, looks like a great set up as well to shoot at several different ranges with very little set up change.

    Looks like the 7 is shooting well!

    I noticed in your groups that there is always one the is a bit out of the group. Have you patterned your shots. Just wondering if it is the first shot after adjusting the scope as this can often cause this. Just curious if there is any consistancy to the slight flier. If its the 3rd round it is probably barrel heat in the factory barrel causing the flier.

    I have seen this with many Rem factory barrels chambered for the RUM rounds, shots one and two are tight, the third opend up slightly and it seems to be a result of barrel heat.

    All in all impressive shooting by any standard!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    You nailed it Kirby! It's usualy the third shot that flies. It has become more evident as the temps rise. During the colder months the flier was not as bad. The temp was 80 to 85 degrees yesterday which produced more barrel heat than normal hince the more accentuated fliers.
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    7RUMloader,

    Since your rifle is shooting as well as it is I hate to even bring this up but I have found out through extensive testing with my Allen Mags that using a slow ball powder produces dramatically less barrel heat then the high energy stick powders do.

    This became dramatically clear when I rechambered my 257 STW to to test my 257 Allen Mag.

    I started out using Retumbo which was the powder of choice for my STW in the 30" barrel with 100 to 130 gr bullets. In the Allen Mag with its +20 gr case capacity increase I was getting severe pressure variations with any stick powder so I was forced to search for a ball powder that would work.

    I quickly realized that AA8700 was perfect for 100 to 130 gr bullets and that WC872 worked best with 130 to 156 gr pills in my 257 Allen Mag.

    In comparision, using the 100 gr Wildcat BCFBHP loaded to 3950 fps in the STW and 4080 fps in my Allen Mag the barrel temp difference was dramatic comparing Retumbo with AA8700.

    In my notes I have written, "after 5 shots, barrel to hot to hold". This was for the STW when I was developing loads in late September last fall, temps were in the 50 degree range.

    With the 257 Allen Mag loaded with 8700 I could shoot an 8 shot string and easily hold the barrel with no discomfort from barrel heat. The barrel is certainly warm but not hot and thats with +100 fps more velocity and nearly 20 grains more powder burnt. Admittedly not a good trade off as the STW is a better design with 100 gr bullets but from there up it does not even compare to the AM with heavier bullet weights.

    Anyway, the point is that you may want to play with some ball powder and see what kind of results you can get. Since your using H-50BMG I would recommend getting ahold of Jeff at www.gibrass.com and order in some WC872. You can use the same starting loads as with H-870 or 8700 with this powder but it is a bit slower. Even a bit slower then H-50BMG from what I have seen in my 270 Allen Mag where it performs extremely well with the 270 169.5 gr ULD easily topping 3300 fps. I am sure it would perform just as well in your big 7mm.

    Advantages to ball powder:

    1. Easy metering

    2. Cooler burning temps

    3. Less throat erosion

    4. Cost

    WC872 runs $40 per 8 lb keg from Jeff. I ordered in 32 lbs and with that large of an order you get a break on Haz shipping charges so the total for 32 lbs of 872 including shipping charges came to $188 and some change. Thats $5.88 per pound!!! A bit cheaper then H-50BMG.

    There are a few disadvantages as well:

    1. Does not burn clean except at good upper working pressure loads. Do not down load or it will look like a coal factory in your barrel!

    2. Can be a bit more temp sensitive. Most run a winter and summer load with Ball powders. Ramshots new Magnum powder is said to be as temp resistant as Hodgdon stuff but I have not tested it enough to tell you 100% if this is true.

    3. Lots can very from one to another but this is why you order 8 lbs of the stuff at a time or more. generally there are not alot of lots out there to get mixed up. The 32 lbs I ordered from Jeff is all same lot powder.

    Just something to think about. In a round like the RUMS where you have 100 gr capacity, bore heat will always be an issue no matter what powder you use, but using a ball powder may get you 4 or 5 shots before fliers set in instead of 3.

    Just an idea, like I said, as well as your rifle is shooting with the load you are using now I would think twice before considering a load change, there is really no real need as long as you keep your barrel cool.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    Thanks Kirby for the suggestion! I have been keeping up with most all of your posts about your allen mags and remembered you saying you got a lot better performance and less barrel heat with the ball powders. I ordered up some ramshot magnum and will be working up loads with it soon to see it's performance first hand.
    I have witnessed the heat difference with different powders in my RUM just in the hodgdon line of powders. The H-1000 is cooler than any I've tried yet but doesn't perform that well with the big wildcats. The retumbo provides better performance with a barely noticeable heat difference from H-1000 but I was out when I started my main tests and the BMG powder provided the best performance overall but much more barrel heat than the others. I could fire 4 and 5 shots with H-1000 before the barrel got to the same temp with only 3 shots of BMG. There was however a 10 grain difference in charge which accounts for some of the heat. I have some more Retumbo here now and the Ramshot but only have enough wildcats to do load development with each powder which will be fine because I'm sure Richard has my new order on it's way!

    I will check into the WC872 because at that price it's hard to turn down and with the case capacity I have 8 pounds will be gone before you know it.
    I plan on having a RUM around for awhile so I may as well buy more than 8 pounds if it's a good performer. The plan is when this barrel is gone or the new AM arrives to ship this action and stock back to you to construct a 300 RUM! So powder will definitly be disappearing around here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    Download a rig of mine! Never! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    Thanks again for your help Kirby and your kind words! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  13. distantfoe

    distantfoe Well-Known Member

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    fiftydriver,
    I'm curious about your allen mags! What cartridges are the allen mags based on? Are these proprietary rounds? I would appreciate any info you could give me as I am into these type of super flat shooters.
     
  14. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

    7rum,
    That's a 6.5-20x40 Vari-III on the .25-06 Rem. JK