Why you need to lube your case necks if you use an ultrasonic cleaner or STM

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by barnesuser28, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to do a little test after a was reading a thread on annealing on another forum, one guy suggested that adding lube to freshly cleaned and annealed brass would only cause inconsistencies and promote bullet setback under recoil. I loaded up 6 rounds of 30/375 S.I. ammo for the test, three had hornady one shot sprayed in the case necks before sizing without the expander ball, and three did not, i chose a load i already knew how it shot with the lubed necks. Here is a pick of a three shot group of the load i chose two days before this test.

    [​IMG]

    And here are the bullets after seating, unlubed on the left, lubed on the right, notice how much the seating stem pushed in the jacket of the 210 nosler ALR. Seating force was also easily triple the amount needed on the unlubed necks as the force needed on the lubed ones.

    [​IMG]

    I shot them at 100 yards, before i shot the first group with the unlubed necks, i fired 1 round to get the barrel warm, the barrel wasnt cleaned from the 45 rounds that were out down the barrel over the last week before this test. Here is the group with the unlubed necks.

    [​IMG]

    And the group with the lubed necks.

    [​IMG]

    Now i didnt have a chrono to compare velocities and ES, but all the vertical of the unlubed necks compared to the very little with the lubed necks suggest to me that putting some type of neck lube will help my groups and out rounds on target.
     

  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Nice test. I started using the Imperial dry lube on case necks years ago. I like the smooth and consistent feel while seating bullets. Plus I like not having the mess of the "One Stuck". You may want to consider it too.

    Jeff
     

  3. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    The groupings look consistant, only one is vertical, and the other horizontal for the kickers...

    One question, with the dry lube, how do yall keep from having powder stick to the inside of the necks or knock the dry lube off, when you pour the powder charge in there? Why I used to lube the neck with Imperial for every case, I would get a horrible buildup in the neck and powder would stick to it when I dumped it in. But if I swabbed the necks I removed the lube, and SOME powder grains still stuck.

    How do we solve this problem?

    Jeff, I know you probably have a solution, I'm just curious how everyone solves this issue.
     
  4. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I think we are talking about two different lubes. The imperial dry lube I use is in a little tub with media beads. Like a graphite dry lube dust. It is 100% dry and no sticking powder.

    "Imperial Application Media with Dry Neck Lube"

    Jeff
     
  5. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was wondering if the powder pouring in knocked any of the dry lube off? If not, I might go the dry lube route...
     
  6. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I think about 3.002% is removed by powder coming in. But that was a rough lab test I did on only 2000 rounds tested....:)

    Jeff
     
  7. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    I have some of the imperial dry neck lube with the ceramic media, but i always thought it would get knocked out by the powder getting poured and i didnt feel like i could get it on consistently on each case. If the powder gets stuck to the necks with the one shot, its not big deal, when you seat the bullet is knocks it right off. BTW i just got a stuck case with the one stuck last night, i ripped the rim off and had to pound it out with my case remover tool. One Lapua 6.5x284 case down... :rolleyes: I will be using unique wax for sizing and one shot for neck lube. I would like to see someone lube the case with the imperial dry neck lube, look at it with a bore scope, pour powder, and borescope it again to see if there is any difference.
     
  8. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jeff. I might have to give it a go.
     
  9. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Riley, get a RCBS lube pad and a bottle on RCBS case lube. You will learn the technique in a few minutes and cure any future stuck case issues. Just don't use too much lube or you will get shoulder dents. A light film, just enough to feel it, is all that is needed.

    As for knocking off the dry lube on the inside of the necks, I have had no issues. I can tell you it has made the feel of all the bullets going in very even. I think it is good to go. You only need a little, not a coat of dust and it is easy and clean to apply with no mess like the fish oil.

    I don't like the thought of wet lube in with the powder. It may not hurt a thing but I prefer to keep powder dry at any rate.

    Jeff
     
  10. jimbires

    jimbires Well-Known Member

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  11. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    I sonic clean after annealing. The inside necks are so clean mica would not stick . I tried several methods of application nothing worked. Until I dipped my finger and thumb into the mica coating my finger prints with it then rolled the bearing surface of the bullet between my thumb and finger to coat. No mica falls into the case and all bullets get nice uniform coat.
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    barnesuser28, it sounds like your seating depths were different between to samples(due to excess seating forces). Were the seating depths the same?

    And it also seems like you're overlooking the option of not cleaning necks at all.
    Like you create a problem and cover it with a band aid.
    Maybe you could run a test with normally cleaned brass(vibratory/tumbled).
     
  13. cowboy

    cowboy Well-Known Member

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    That brought a grin to my face - good one. It also got me to thinking on something I have never done. Has anyone ever lubed the base of the bullets rather than the ID of the neck? If so - what did you find?
     
  14. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the seating depths were the same, i adjusted the die so they were. I like to anneal after every firing and i dont think it is a good idea to anneal dirty case necks. So i ultrasonic clean to remove the most i can.