Why No 3R rifling??

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by elkaholic, May 9, 2011.

  1. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    All you gunsmiths out there or any other knowlegdable person, why do none of the barrel makers out there make a 3R barrel? I've had both 3 groove and 5r barrels and it seems to me like it would make a good marriage? Is there some reason it's not a good idea or???............Rich
     

  2. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    bump

    lightbulbBecause nobody built one and won a competition yet?

    When that happens, everyone will jump on the bandwagon.

    Make it a progressive twist while you're at it and call it 3RP.

    -- richard
     

  3. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    You are probably right! I still wonder why someone hasn't tried it though given the popularity of the 3 groovers AND the trapezoidal rifling......Rich
     
  4. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I just got off the phone with one of the top barrel makers of 5r rifling and this is what I learned. My feeling about the 3 groovers was that they lasted longer and I didn't see any loss of accuracy so I thought the marriage with the 5r which cleans up better would be a good thing. He says that the reason the 3 groovers appear to last longer is because when you compare them to another button rifled barrel, they probably will. Because the button rifled barrels have displaced metal, they tend to loose larger chunks of material when the throat erodes and the wider lands in the three groove tend to help overcome that so accuracy doesn't suffer as quickly even when the throat is erroded. He says that a cut rifled barrel would not act in the same way because the metal isn't displaced but rather cut out. It never dawned on me until just now, but with that logic, the 3 groove with CUT rifling should then last even longerlightbulb! He did say that the odd number of lands were SOMETIMES an advantage over having the grooves cut directly accross from each other in the jacket as would be the case for a four groove for ex. He also said that he felt the 90 degree rifling was a slight advantage in small caliber bullets especially with short bearing surfaces........Rich
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Hey Rich,

    I think my next barrel with be a Snieder (sic) polygon in a 270 cal. Don't know if there's any Rs involved but I'm interested.
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a barrel maker that makes nothing but cut rifled barrels.

    I have lots of buttoned rifled barrels and a bore scope and have never seen any chunks
    missing from the throat Even in the 3 grove barrels.

    There has allways been a controversy over cut verses buttoned rifled barrels and there allways
    will be. Cut rifling done well is a very good process but so is a buttoned rifling. and the fact that
    the buttoned rifling will last longer than cut rifling with the same use makes me lean towards
    the buttoned barrel on heavy use barrels.

    Mainly it is the quality of the barrel that makes a difference in accuracy. In over 50 years of
    shooting I have owned many fine rifles ,some cut rifling and some buttoned And when the
    masters were building the cut rifled barrels and buttoned rifling was still in it's infancy they
    were better barrels but once the bugs got worked out the buttoned barrels were there equal.

    A good barrel maker does not have to run down his competitors, his barrels will sell them
    selves. I can remember when stainless barrels were not well thought of and now they are 80
    to 90 percent of all the custom barrels made.

    I have looked at almost all barrels with my bore scope and have narrowed it down to 3 or 4
    barrel makers based on quality and performance and the mix is 50-50.

    Get what you want but don't expect miracles if you listen to a snake oil salesman.

    This is not intended to incite the barrel gods, I just don't trust the guy that has nothing
    to say for his competition but how bad his process or quality is.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Jerry......that thought crossed my mind as he IS a cut rifled guy!.....Rich
     
  8. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Roy.....are we talking .270 Sherman here?:D
     
  9. msalm

    msalm Well-Known Member

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    I'm a cut rifled guy, hell, I live in WI so it's a requirement. I know a couple of the cut rifled barrel makers pretty well and it is strange how in a market where the wait time on a barrel is so long that you'll still see makers bicker back and forth. That said, I have seen button barrels with chunks missing out of that aligator hide/dry lake bed pattern of throat erosion. And even when they looked that way they still shot damnded good, they might foul a little more at that point, but it's to be expected. Whether theoretical or not, initially one would thing that the work hardening of the edge of the land/groove in a buttoned barrel would be a good thing, that is where the 'chunks' come off supposedly due to the harder, brittle nature of that specific area (granted, coming from a cut-barrel maker). A good one from either process still shoots very well though, the longevity issue will probably never be resolved as everyone has their own opinions and they make barrels the way they do because they believe in it, and that is a good thing IMO.