Why do so many people hate on wolves?

Discussion in 'Wolf Hunting' started by Stanm70, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Im from KS we don't have any large predators (unless you count the random cougar). So I am fairly ignorant of the subject, but I see tons of people talking about how wolves are the worst things since Feinstein. Why?
     
  2. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    They are capable of killing the largest game species excluding predators larger than themselves. If left unchecked they are quite capable of decimating game species, causing large losses to livestock farmers (including cows miscarrying even if otherwise not physically harmed) and otherwise undoing what hunters have spent decades establishing.

    Here in MI, the DNR has taken to protecting coyotes by creating a season for hunting them and a relatively short night hunting season with very restrictive gun rules (shotgun or rimfire only). One needs to get a small game license unless the property has agricultural status. Wolves in this state just were removed from protected status and are now a game animal and one assumes there will probably be a lottery style process to get a tag and then only in those specific hunting units where the wolves are causing problems to agricultural activities.

    The fact is that conservation officials regularly shoot wolves them from helicopters when they habitually prey on livestock, but no such protection exists for other game animals. Other than in national and some state parks, the habitat is not undisturbed and therefore it will not work to turn things over to nature in the prey/predator relationship, unless of course sportsmen want to be satisfied with taking just a fraction of the game they do today. Already, in upper MI the deer population is down drastically. Even in SE MI where I am not aware of any wolves, between coyotes and disease the deer numbers are way down. The 100 acre farm where i hunt is showing only 4 yearling does so far this year. 2 years ago there was a herd of over 40. Hunters on the farm have only taken 7 deer in the last 2 years and we have hardly had a winter in 3 years now. One would expect deer numbers to be way up under such conditions.
     

  3. ShooterMedic

    ShooterMedic Well-Known Member

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    I personally love wolves........ Then taste like chicken:D

    Let's say you had grown up hunting an area your whole life, where you saw game every year, harvested animals most years. Then in just a few years After they introduce a new predator to the area you notice you are lucky to see an animal. Instead of game sign you find wolf track on every ridge line and hill top. Or you attempt to bugle up an elk but find instead you have 5 wolves that came to the call instead! Yeah I think you would have the same feelings we do out west. I think the worst part of it is knowing that if something does not change my kids will not have the same hunting experiences I was able have.
     
  4. 429421Cowboy

    429421Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    They are killing machines, and will kill simply for the pleasure of watching things drop.
    They cause many hundreds of thousands of dollars of losses to states in terms of revenue lost from the populations of game being wiped out, as well as livestock killed, maimed or aborted from them.
    I raise livestock and have seen what wolves to do animals, just like coyotes that chew off a sheep's face and eat them alive, wolves will hamstring a moose, elk or cow and eat them alive. Trust me, you only have to see that once to lose alot of respect for them. Not to mention the pets they kill each year, many dogs, especially lion hounds, get shredded each year by them.
    I don't want to see them wiped out, but if there were no more wolves outside the park as a tourist trap, i wouldn't mind one bit.
    If you live with something, it takes the romance out of it REAL fast. That is why those of us out here would be planty happy to box up all the critters here and freight them back east to the people that said they wanted them!
    End rant.
     
  5. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Wow I didnt realize how bad they suck! Just to be clear did you say that they kill for pleasure? Without intention of eating? or do they show restraint if not hungry?
     
  6. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Ask the Rancher down by Dillon Montana that had all his (sheep) Rams in one pasture and the wolves killed 120 of them in one killing spree. It was killing for sport, on private land, from a life long raised sheep heard, nothing to do with wolves being hungry. Just doing what wolves do best, killing.

    http://helenair.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_f0b347aa-939b-11de-b126-001cc4c03286.html

    Jeff
     
  7. 429421Cowboy

    429421Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I have come across deer that have been run down on the open snow in the mountains and killed, as many as they could run down, then leave them where they lay.

    I know people near Augusta that have had the same situation as Broz just posted, they just love to slaughter sheep!
     
  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Last year only 4 sheep were killed on the sheep farm where I try to keep the predators under control. Of the 4, only 1 was actually eaten. A second had the face eaten off but was otherwise untouched. Another 2 died from shock and blood loss after taking multiple bites.

    I get the impression that sheep are relatively big prey animals for coyotes and that the adults take the pups on "training missions" to teach them how to hunt the bigger animals. That would explain why out of 4 animals in a few weeks, only 1 was actually consumed. I killed 2 males out of that pack in the same general area as where the sheep were killed on 02/02.

    2 years ago, before I became involved, this farmer lost 80% of his lambs and 1 out of 5 of his breeding herd to the coyotes. That year nearly drove the farm to bankruptcy.
     
  9. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Is it open season on them like coyotes? or are they restricted to hunt? I would be raising hell with the state if I lost money because of the State's pet projects.
     
  10. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for wolves, but for example, if I shoot a coyote out of season on the farm, one may have to call it in to the DNR to be legal. I know for a fact that hunters killing predators out west have been arrested for not calling in cougar and other kills within a certain period (10 days ?) I assume with coyotes no-one will bother but I think a wolf kill would have to be called in. This is assuming one is on agricultural land. Any other land usually the only justification would be self defense.
     
  11. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Wow I cant believe some states have an actual season for coyotes. Only need a hunting license and your golden.
     
  12. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Some states are treating them like big game animals, selling tags with seasons and limits, I think Wyoming is the only that can shoot on sight in some areas.

    It is a proven fact that cattle in high pasture with wolves raise smaller calves due to the stress they endure. This loss in weight on sale day each fall cost each individual rancher thousands. More like 10's of thousands from each ranch with the problem. We have seen the neighbors entire heard ( twice in the last 30 days) come running back to the corrals, in the dark, and heard up tight in the middle of the night as wolves pass through. These are cows with new born calves only days or weeks old. Some get stepped on. This kind of stress is not good for production.

    Jeff
     
  13. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    DITTO THIS and the other too
     
  14. threejones

    threejones Well-Known Member

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    Plus one more on both. I've hunted all over NW MT my whole life, and would like to take my kids soon as well. But as wolves arrive, game numbers drop like a stone. The wolf lovers all claim that the game species existed along side the wolf for thousands of years, and thus, it's supposed to be just as it was a few hundred years ago. The hole in this theory is that the game species now have never seen a wolf, and no longer have the skills/knowledge to deal with a new apex predator.

    Wolves will take other predators kills as well (or just run them off the kill), this forces other apex predators to kill more often. We've seen a lot of strange behavior from lions and bears that are damn near starved. Healthy but hungry lions have even been found hanging out in barns, or on peoples decks eating their dogs and cats. There was a pic on here somewhere awhile back of a big tom that a guy found in his barn that didn't even run off when the guy came into the barn.

    I've heard from some local outfitters that brown and grizzly bear cubs are becoming few and far between too. I haven't heard any hard facts that prove wolves are the cause of this. But the only change in the environment is the addition of the wolf, so as long as 1+1 is still 2... you get where I'm going with this.

    Another big reason we hate em so much is that FWP ties our hands in regards to keeping them under control. They admit that the population is over what they call "sustainable" but won't increase bag limits or extend hunting/trapping seasons long enough to keep the numbers at what they call reasonable levels. So every year the population of wolves grows even farther beyond what it's supposed to be, yet control measures don't increase to even close to what they need to be. WY and ID are starting to make a little progress, but MT is still WAY behind the curve.

    Sorry to be so long winded, but I just had a nice... We'll call it a "discussion" with a Sierra Club dumb-ass in the parking lot at the local FWP office, over the "smoke a pack a day" sticker on my pickup, and I'm still a little hot about it.