whiich case trimmer and competition dies

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Ultramag45, May 10, 2009.

  1. Ultramag45

    Ultramag45 Well-Known Member

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    gun)Ok guys, I have been reloading for a while... I guess I do Ok... i really want to get into the competition type accuracy from my 338 Rum..... I have never used a Conc Gauge, ( Until Now, just got one.. Sinclair)I have only used standard rcbs DIes, I want to know which is the best comp dies out there, Redding comp, Rcbs Comp, or whatever.... also on case trimming( never used a good one), which one should I get..... Rcbs, Wilson, or what..... ANyhelp here would be much appreciated.... have read some neg reviews about rcbs case trimmer... thanks Guys....
     
  2. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    I have a RCBS trimmer and I like it. If I was to do it over again, I'd probably get a wilson. I had to shim my RCBS w/ tape to get the cutting edge and the case holder square and true. It is fairly fast to use however. The Neck turning attachment is junk!!

    I only have one redding comp seater so I can't really speak to that other than It works nice, but I think it's only major advantage is ease of setting the seating depth exactly the same from batch to batch. i have only factory rifles and I don't think the seating die is going to do much to improve accuracy. I would NOT get the RCBS however.

    Most of your runout is going to be in the case and is usually caused by the resizing die and more specifically the expander ball. You may want to polish the expander down a bit so it doesn't pull out very hard.
     

  3. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    With the 338 and comp accuracy go with the forester bonanza BR series and micro seater. Half the price of the others at top accuracy and ease.

    Problem with comp accuracy LR with the 338 is bullets. Only one really close to being competitive is the 300 SMK and you must sort them by weight and ogive first. Even then, you will lag behind the 6mm, and 30 cals.

    Now a better bet is see if Redding makes a body die only for the 338 RUM and buy it ($25). "Send it with 5 cases fired 3x to Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision (6mmbr.com under tools heading) and for about $75 he will make a custom honed to your chamber, FL size die with bushings. Turn around is about 2-3 wks normally.

    As for the case trimmer, get a wilson.

    BH
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  4. Ultramag45

    Ultramag45 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Probabily not going to enter any comps with the 338 RUm but just want a little better accuracy, and consistent Case uniformity.... Everyone talks about your dies being the major cause of Bullet Runout.... that is why I was looking at the Redding comp dies.... that should eliminate alot of it, i hope... I will check out that other brand..... Forester...thanks I will go with the wilson trimmer.....
     
  5. Winchester 69

    Winchester 69 Well-Known Member

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    A simple and economic approach to accuracy is a FL bushing die (Redding S-Type) and a Forster non-mic seater. Redding's or Forster's mic seaters are fine but more expensive if you are shooting a factory barrel out of the magazine (no need for a mic).

    Some prefer to use a Lee collet die in conjunction with a Redding body die for sizing for a factory barrel.

    Wilson has the trimmer. It's available with a base from Sinclair.

    A book that explains it all is Glen Zediker's "Handloading for Competition" (also available from Sinclair).
    .
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  6. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    Well you can't get a Lee Collet Neck Sizer for the 338RUM unless you send off to Lee to make you one. You can get the Redding Body Die. If you wanted to wait then the Lee Collet Neck Sizer and Redding Body Die will do an excellent job of resizing with ease and very little runout.

    Another option is the Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizer (kinda expensive at $110.00 not including bushings)
    MidwayUSA - Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizer Die 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
    and the Redding Body Die. The thing is that the bushing sizers size the outside of the neck to the bushing size and so if you have variances in neck thickness, those variances will be pushed to the inside of the neck where they bear upon your bullet and effect bullet grip, seating pressure and thus bullet runout. IMO if you use a bushing die you need to outside neck turn unless you are lucky enough to purchase brass with close to perfect neck thickness (lots of luck on that one).

    Last option is to use the RCBS FL sizer you have and just remove the expander ball. In order to do that you will need to outside neck turn to keep your bullet grip under control. For instance if you size a piece of brass in your FL die without the expander and the outside diameter of the neck is .359" (to pick a likely candidate) then you could outside neck turn your brass down to .012" per side and have a bullet grip of .003"

    .338"(caliber)+.012"+.012(both sides of neck)=.362"-.003"(bullet grip)=.359"

    Since most factory brass is (Remington, I just measured some) .013" to .014" then you would need to do a complete turn down .012"
    [​IMG]

    but you could pay for a good outside neck hand turner with the money you would save on the bushing die and Redding Body Die.

    Seaters do make a difference and I use a Redding Competition Seater for my 338RUM. Less runout and more consistant seating depth.

    So IMO

    1. Send off for a Lee Collet Neck Sizer, buy a Redding Body Die and Redding Competition Seater
    2. Buy a Redding Bushing Neck Sizer, a Redding Body Die, Redding Competition Seater and a Forster hand held outside neck turner
    3. Use your FL die without the expander, buy a Redding Competition Seater and a Forster hand held outside neck turner
     
  7. Winchester 69

    Winchester 69 Well-Known Member

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    4. Get a Forster die set and have Forster open up the sizer to your spec.
    .
     
  8. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Forster BR seater. Redding has copied it and sells theirs for more money but they don't work any better. The Micrometer heads are an asset for users but they don't add a thing to the accuracy of the ammo produced.

    No seater can do much for you if the case necks aren't straight. Since there is no Lee Collet neck die for that cartridge, remove the exander ball and use the FL sizer you have. You really do need to expand the necks properly but get a Lyman "M" expander die for that job, and maybe a universal decapper for punching out the spent primers. The "M" dies work by pushing IN on the necks instead of pulling OUT. That design change leaves much straighter necks, on average, than a conventional expander ball.

    If your case necks vary more than about .002" in thickness it would be helpful to turn them over maybe 60-70% of the circumference. The Forster "HOT-100" hand held neck turner is a very good one and the price is right too.
     
  9. Ultramag45

    Ultramag45 Well-Known Member

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    Does Lyman make that DIE in 338 rum.. I see it 338 WIN or how about a redding full length S die
     
  10. BIG MICK

    BIG MICK Active Member

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    Redding 2400 trimmer and Redding s type fl die and micro seater, thats all folks.
     
  11. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "Does Lyman make that DIE in 338 rum.. I see it 338 WIN or how about a redding full length S die"

    The Lyman M dies are caliber specific, not cartridge specific. The die for .338W will work fine for your RUM.

    I see little benefit from ANY "bushing" die unless the loader has a tight neck that requires turning. But, if the necks ARE truned exactly right, the bushings are great. Otherwise you are only pushing the variations inside and then the bullets have to push them back outside. That's NOT good for best seating, IMHO.

    In all honesty, a trimmer is a trimmer. Not very complicated. They all work fine, including the simple, inexpensive Lee case trimmers. I prefer the Lyman Universal trimmer simply because it comes with a set of 9 commonly used pilots AND its universal shell holder is both easy to use and a great time saver.