Which caliber 257 or 264 ?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by ZRT1000, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. ZRT1000

    ZRT1000 Active Member

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    I picked up a pre 64 win action that was a 30/06 and I am going to have a gun built but can't decided what caliber. It will be for deer to (elk If I ever go). I wanted to go with the 257 weatherby but the 264 win keeps coming up but although i own a stock win with a 24" barrel I think it could be better with a 26" and some hand loads. i don't understand after reading most of my reloading manuals why with the extra powder why the 264 only duplicates the 270 win MV. I am still leaning to the 257 but I think the 264 will buck the wind better... This is my first custom gun and run at a somewhat longrange shooter.. any input would be great .. Thanks
     
  2. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    The case capacity of the two rounds is very similar and you will get similar results with them.

    Couple of things to think about.

    The 257 suffers from a lack of any high BC bullets from the major bullet suppliers. The 264 has two great choices of either the heavy Bergers or Sierra MKs. You can contact Paul at Wildcat bullets and see when he will be producing the 130 & 142 gr HP RBBT bullets in 257. This will turn the rifle into a fine long range elk rifle equal to the 264. You will most likely need a 1-8 twist barrel to do a good job of stabilizing the bullets. You should think about a 28 inch barrel and slow burning powders. It might be interesting to try a gain twist barrel

    Things get tricky when you start to specify the reamer and chamber on a Wby. If you eliminate the freebore then it will not be able to use factory ammo. The path I normally trod is minimum SAAMI chamber with a target leade. I can get a bullet to jam in the leade. There is nothing wrong with freebore if you are willing to live with the fact that the rifle may prefer a bullet that is not really a long range bullet.

    If you decide to build a 257 based upon shooting the Wildcat bullets you should buy enough before you order the barrel to burn out the barrel. You run risks either way, but if the rifle does not like the bullets you can resell them. If you build the rifle first and have no bullet, then you are at the mercy of the single supplier of them and his continued well being.
     

  3. 4bycamper

    4bycamper Well-Known Member

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    First semi custom rifle ... I hear that, as I am building my first also. :)
    Yes, a 26" barrel is a good idea for that extra velocity. And still very carry-able.
    Just a suggestion as to your caliber, I think a 284 Win would be perfect for your use. You have a 'o6 bolt face so you're not locked-in to a magnum caliber as I was.
    ( I ended up with a 7mm SAUM to work in my Mag SA )
    If it's wind drift that gets your attention, The best 7mm bullets have a better BC and SD. Also you could use heavier bullets than 140 gr for Roosevelt Elk which are as big as horses.

    Some have mentioned loosing their deer after using 25-06. 25 cal is not the best for long range harvesting of big game. 6.5 cal is better but 7mm is very good for hunting . 284 Win is a very efficient caliber and excellent for targeting and hunting. You can handload it as hot as you want and there's lots of load data available.
    6mmbr.com has several "gun of the week" entries. Good reading. JMHO




    JM .02
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  4. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Got to agree with BuffaloBob here; bullet selection is totally on the side of the .264" bore. Never been much of a fan of the 264 Win Mag, however. Gvien that it's a 30-06 we're talking about, have you considered a 6.5/284? You'd have the bullet selection there, and it wouldn't require any modification to the bolt since it shares the '06s .473" bolt face. Much better brass available for it than what you'll find for the 264 Win Mag, and the performance isn't that far behind the bigger case. Just a little something to consider . . .

    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
     
  5. jcvibby

    jcvibby Non-Profit Sponsor

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    If only between those two for sure the 264 because if the great bullet selection
     
  6. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    IMO 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 would be the two most cost effective choices. No extra cost involved with either of these choices. 6.5-06 would probably be my first choice. You could go with a 6.5-06 improved too but I don't think there is much gain there.
     
  7. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The 264 win mag is the same case as the 7mm rem mag. Both of these outperform the 270 winchester. My 257 wby shoots a 100 grain Barnes TSX at 3780 fps. It is incredibly flat and fun to shoot out to about 600 yards. It has blown right through everything we have shot it at and this includes a 550 pound caribou at 486 yards. Beyond that the 264 win mag or STW with a 130 grain swift scirroco .571 BC takes over. The 264 STW shooting this bullet at over 3500 fps is awesome at long range and the 257 wby can't keep up there because of the poor BC 25 cal bullets. Inside 600 yards I would do the 257 wby. If you plan on shooting beyond that then do the 264 STW. The 264 win mag is a little easier on the barrel but not quite as fast so take your pick there. Without modifying your bolt face the 264 gibbs will virtually duplicate the 264 win mag. Within a 100 fps anyway. The 257 gibbs is also a very good one. The 264 and 257 on the JRS design are tops on your bolt face. It is all you can get out of a 280 case which gives you a bit more than the blown out '06 case. I think Pac-Nor can do these. This would get you very close to the 264 win mag on your bolt face. I like the JRS design over the Gibbs because of the short neck (.25") on the Gibbs. The JRS design gives you the same case capacity with a longer neck with the longer 280 parent case.
     
  8. ZRT1000

    ZRT1000 Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I was looking for a 500 yd gun. I still don't understand how with the extra capacity of the 264 case the manuals say the 270 win will move a 140 gr pill at the same fps as the 264.. And that is making the 264 hard to swallow.
    I want to stick with a magnum, I am thinking it is no big deal to open the bolt face, or am I wrong ?
    I am thinking my action is to short to think about using any of the STW's am I right ?
    Long time long range, Are you getting that velocity with the 3 groove barrel I read about ?
     
  9. Nitroused383

    Nitroused383 Active Member

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    257 is plenty capable of 500 yard shooting, quite a bit further if you use the right bullets. Ya the bullet selection isn't the greatest but how many bullets does a guy actually use? 115 vld for the long range stuff, kick em out around 3300-3500 fps will be one of the flatest shooting guns out there... Than if you want to rip some coyotes up load up some 85 grain pills to 3800-4000 fps gun)

    I think the 257 can do everything the 264 can do. 257 just does it alot faster. If you read around alot of people will agree the 25 caliber stuff does work on deer. How many bullets do you really need? Look at most 338 guys, they only use 1 bullet. I am getting a bc of .630 out of the 115 vld shooting out of my 25-06 AI @ 3427, this has been an accurate bc to 1000 yards. 16.3 moa @ 1000 yards with a 200 yard zero... thats pretty damn flat shooter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  10. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Easy to open your bolt face. STW to long. 257 wby perfect for 500 yards. Mine is a standard MK 5 wby 26" barrel. Shooting inside of 600 yards no need for the slow, heavy, high BC bullets. The 100 grain Barnes TSX will shoot through anything out to 500 yards at 3780 fps. Much better than the high BC target bullets that can cause you wounding losses. The Barnes will always perform perfectly and put the animal on the ground. Mine is 7" low at 500 yards and I don't think it gets much over 5" high at mid range here in WY with the elevation. The past year this load has taken caribou, elk, deer and antelope. All complete pass throughs out to over 500 yards and nothing has gone over a few steps after being hit. It is amazing out to 500 yards.
     
  11. ZRT1000

    ZRT1000 Active Member

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    Now my next problem, I just called the guy I was going to have the gun built by and he doesn't feel comfortable opening the bolt face and extractor on the pre 64 action. Any recommendations on who could build it ? I am located in pa. Thanks
     
  12. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Lots of good choices here on the forum. I think JoelRusso and Shawn Carlock are from PA. But you are in the center of the long range/top gunsmith universe in PA. Lots of good choices there.

    Nitro, Which bullet are you using to get a .630 BC out of a 115 grain 257 bullet? I like that idea for long range over 600 yards. I have two 257 STW's that would look real good in those bullets.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  13. Nitroused383

    Nitroused383 Active Member

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    Thats what I have been getting for the Bergers. Everything lines up with my drops @ 600, 700 and 1000 yards. The only thing that makes no sense is I am zero'd @ 200 yards and it only drops 21-23 inches @ 500 yards. No BC matches that drop... My buddy shoots the same bullets through his 257 Roy and he is getting similar bc, maybe slightly lower. Might be the difference between a factory barrel and my hand lapped shilen?? They thump steel pretty hard @ 600 yards, pretty comparable to my 300 RUM shooting 190 Bergers @ 3220.

    These 115's are still going 2000 fps @ 1000 yards with around 1000 ft/lbs of energy, good enough for a deer if you ask me. If using G7 bc I get around a .320 which is similar to a .630 G1 bc. It makes no sense for the bc that berger list, but I doubt they test these bullets @ 3400 + fps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  14. ZRT1000

    ZRT1000 Active Member

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    I looked up shawn carlock and he is in Idaho and joel russo seems to be doing stocks.. Anybody know somebody in the pa area ? ..Thanks