What is the quickest most foolproof windage method?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by johnnybar, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. johnnybar

    johnnybar Well-Known Member

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    What do you find to be the best setup for making elevation and windage corrections quickly and in a relatively foolproof manner for hunting situations. I have a laser rangefinder that determines accurate angle corrected MOA adjustments for elevation. So, I range, dial up the required MOA then estimate wind and either guess hold off relative to the animals size or, dial MOA, into the wind, from a range card taped to the butt stock. I have seen turrets that have windage noted next to the MOA values on the top turret. With that setup you range, dial elevation, note recommended windage per 10mph on turret, correct for actual mph and hold off with a mil or moa reticle.

    I limit shots to 600 yds currently and use a 4.5-14 Leupold VXIII with standard duplex reticle. It's the reticle that subtends 16" from post to crosshair at the yardage noted on the power dial. My vmax loads require 7 minutes per 10 mph at 600 yds. That's 7 feet in a 20mph wind...kind of hard to guestimate that much. I've contemplated adding the windage moa's to the top turret in the proper locations. Then, I would just have to take time to dial in moa windage.

    What have you found to be a simple setup that works, with first shot reliability, a high percentage of the time.
     
  2. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    A reticule w/ more detail like a TMR IS NICE. Leupold shop can quote you price. It would be best for you to dial wind if you have much. For less you could use duplex for reference. If you angle shoot much you are going to want a ACI and small calculater, or pencil and paper. The wind is never a simple solution as it is different at places along bullet flight. I have shot at early morning, no mirage,sage, no wind on meter and missed by 4 feet, wind in canyon @ 10 mph,257 caliber. I have cut my wind holds by 2/3 going to the largest caliber and bullet I shoot, as itis far less affected.Use to speed goat w/257. Now 338 Norma.
     

  3. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Kestrel!
     
  4. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    The quickest is to use body measurements.

    IE: 7' equals 2.5x lenth of coyote from base of tail to point of shoulder.
    7' equals 1.5x length of deer from base of tail to point of shoulder.

    The most accurate is to dial.

    In between those is using a mil dot or MP8 reticle.

    If you know your range accurately and the size of the animal it's not that difficult on coyote or larger sized targets.
     
  5. johnnybar

    johnnybar Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to mention that I have a wind/temp handheld unit. I am more interested in what everyone uses to quickly make the windage correction adjustment while in a hurry....in a hunting situation up to 600 yds. I don't have too much trouble with assessing the wind as I'm on mostly level ground with lots of grassland to help assess winds along the bullet's path. My rifle/load requires 7.3 MOA/10mph wind @ 600yds and guessing relative to average animal size isn't an option with any winds much over 5mph @ 90deg.
    Do you find that dialing windage is too time consuming?
    Do you find that dialed in windage is, at times, forgotten about and ruins subsequent shots in mulitple bag limit game like prarie dogs or coyotes?
    Do you find that the mil or moa dot reticle is the best option and always leave the scope zeroed for windage?

    I've been thinking that I will just set the scopes magnification to subtend 16" from post to crosshair at 100yds. That will equal approximately 16 moa of windage at each side post which will carry me out to over 600 yds in a 20 mph wind. Just want to draw from the wealth of LRH knowledge before I decide to go with this plan or especially before spending more money on reticles and/or scopes.
     
  6. johnnybar

    johnnybar Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info WildRose.
    I didn't see your post until after I had posted the additional info above. Some of my problems come up when coyotes are angled, head on or tail on to my position and the shot opportunity is dissapearing quickly. Your formula sounds very workable for a quick shot. Thanks again,

    Ben
     
  7. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    You just described probably 95% of the shots I take HA!

    The MP8, Mil Dot, and TMR reticles really do help.

    Remember too that your wind values change with the angle to the wind as well.

    If your target is 90 degrees to the wind, then you have full value. Less than 90 or more than 90 your windvalue falls.

    For exampe if he's quartering into the wind, you'd cut your wind value in half.

    If he's quartering away from you and the wind you cut it by 3/4 because you actually have a "push" of the bullet by the wind which reduces your lead, as well as cutting your lead due to the fact the left/right movement is cut by half.

    I've actually had to lead some from behind when they were trotting away directly down wind.

    It just takes a lot of practice in the wind for quick shots.
     
  8. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    For several years I used a Mildot scope with turrets and hunted a max range of 600 yards. Used a laser RF for range, Mildots as backup. Dial elevation, Mildots for windage. Because MOA adjustments on the turret were to hard to see and too slow on the standard turret, I would used white electrical tape with black sharpie on the elevation turrret for my ballistic info marked in yards. If I have time I will use a Kestral for wind. Mostly, wind was estimated to within 5 mph, angle included. Quick formula was (distance to target/100)x(wind speed)/caliber factor. Caliber factor was 20 for my 270wsm and 6.5x 284, or 15 for my 308. Example for 300 yards with a 10 mph corrected wind with my 308 was 3x10=30, divided by 15 =2MOA correction. Fast and accurate once you get used to it. Out to 600 yards this was my fastest process. I usually find myself pressed for time in the areas and game I hunt.

    As I have now extended out to 1000 yards, most of the process is the same but I changed scopes. I found the Huskemaw design is very fast, although other scopes can be set up similarly. The calibrated turrets are easy to see and very precise. The wind correction on the upper turret works great, and the 1 MOA windage marks on the reticle are good for fast, accurate correction. At the longer ranges I have to take more time for accurate ranging, wind, conditions, etc. For a ranging back up in poor conditions, the power ring rangefinder system on the Huskemaw works as well if not a little better than using Mil Dots out to around 600 Yards on deer sized game. It's a slower process than Mil Dots though.
     
  9. dirtball

    dirtball Well-Known Member

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  10. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

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    Doping the wind is half science and half art form. The guys that can do it best get very good at gaining a feel for everything that is going on down range then adding the science part to it, ie the wind meter readings and maybe also some mid to far range wind indications as well, to get a final result. This is especially true in mountain country which is where I do most of my shooting.

    Because of that I personally like to hold for wind. I think it is the best way to make quick changes in the conditions while still having a specific place to hold. To be clear, I don't hold for windage with a duplex style reticle. That is just guessing. Instead I personally use a MIL hash reticle so there are specific hold points for me on the main horizontal crosshair in 1/2 MIL increments. Then as conditions, and my ability to read them change, I can make slight changes in my hold without moving out of my shooting form to adjust the windage dial.

    I have really grown to like the graduated reticle system. And that is saying something since I have dialed for windage and elevation for years and years. I like it so well I have been playing with a couple fully graduated MIL hash reticles for elevation and windage hold offs. It will take some time but I can see myself going solely to that method, especially out to 6-800 yards, and never having to touch the dials except for longer shots beyond 800 yards or so.

    One item of note. There are some real world reasons why using a reticle for elevation or windage hold offs is a valid reason to reduce or eliminate error. Especially with an FFP reticle that has been verified to be etched accurately, there is no way for the subtentions to change over time. That isn't necessarily true with turrets. All turrets despite their quality at least have the potential for wear with use and that wear will change their tracking to some degree. With the high quality scopes I am likely talking about a non issue due to how well the turret assemblies are made. But I have seen some of them go bad much faster than I would have anticipated. But this is especially true with the low to mid level scopes that a lot of gents are forced to buy because of budget constraints. On the low to mid level scopes you also often see a difference in tracking when just the elevation turret is adjusted compared to if you are adjusting both windage and elevation. By using the reticle only, once you get the zero set to your shooting area and conditions you just don't have to mess with any internal adjustments and worry about issues.

    For his use the perfect scope for me would be a quality FFP scope that would allow me to shoot using a good 1/2 MIL hash reticle out to 5-800 yards (depending on conditions). These closer shots are the ones that you are likely to need to get off a quick shot and by not having to dial any turrets you can do that very quickly by using the reticle. Then at longer distances I would still have the high quality turrets to make any precise adjustments needed to properly place a bullet in the boiler room at LR. There are a few good ones out there now and I think there are more coming down the pipe in coming months and years.

    My take and the direction I have been moving lately.

    Scot E.
     
  11. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    ScottE, I do exactly as you suggest, on my favorite set up, and I will be all mil in future scopes. I like that it is easy to remember mil holds to1000 or more, just less dialing. Which is how a Greybull or Huskemaw are set up also, but moa.I get to 825 On my TMR now and that is with a 200 zero. I could change all that and climb reticule, I just dial long stuff. I have spotted own miss rock shooting at 1200-1500 and been able to read reticule and connect on #2
     
  12. johnnybar

    johnnybar Well-Known Member

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    where do I get a picture of the TMR mentioned by SP6' and W'Rose?
     
  13. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]Here ya go

    [​IMG]
     
  14. johnnybar

    johnnybar Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the input so far... these kinds of formulas and suggestions in the other responses is exactly what I am trying to gather before making a decision on what will work best for me.