What is the problem??? (reloading Q)

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by BlackSS, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. BlackSS

    BlackSS Well-Known Member

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    This is my first attempt at reloading, I have all brand new equipment, and am trying to reload for my 270 WSM.

    Right away I am having problems...

    RCBS Rock Chucker
    #43 shell holder
    Redding full length die

    When I resize I am getting dents on the shoulder which from everything I'm reading means too much lube.

    I have cleaned the inside of the die, and I am trying to put even less lube on the case then I was initially. I put a tiny drop on my finger tip, rub my fingers together then rub the case, basically just enough to make it shiny.

    This has helped but I am still getting small dents on the shoulder unless I move the ram up and down about 1/4 of the way at a time.

    The makes me think there is something else going on aside from the hydraulic denting:
    Using the hornady lock 'n load comparator it looks the shoulder is being pushed back .010 instead of the .001-.002 I would like to see. I set the die so it is touching the shell holder, and turned it down approx 1/8 turn, there is just a VERY small springy feeling at the end of the stroke, it is probably less than 1/8 of a turn.

    I really don't want dented cases, nor do I want to set the shoulder back that far. Any ideas???
     
  2. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I assume these are fired cases so find one that you get resistance on when you close the bolt. I take and screw my die out and run the brass up all the way then screw the die down as far as it will go then I advance the die and re size and try the brass till you can just load it without any bolt resistance. I don't lube the shoulder at all, just the body and a little on the neck. Lube and moving the shoulder that much is what is giving you dents.

    I went through this when I first started with my 270 WSM, just takes a little to get all the kinks worked out :D

    Easier yet measure the piece that is sticky and set the die to bump .001, if it fits your GTG if not you'll need to find the problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010

  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Don't feel bad. It's easy to get to much lube on /in the dies and brass.

    What happens is the sizing lube seals the case neck and body befor it is all the way up in
    the die, and the excess lube is forced into the shoulder and dents it.

    A simple cure for buildup of lube in the die is to apply a small amount of lube to the inside
    of the neck on every case, And lube every other one on the outside so that when you size
    one that had no lube on the outside there will still be enough lube inside the die from the
    last one to size with little or no effort and this will prevent buildup in the dies.

    Some cases can be sized using 1 out of three with lube on the outside. But apply lube to
    the inside of every neck (It wont build up and it will keep the necks in good shape).

    Hope this helps.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  4. BlackSS

    BlackSS Well-Known Member

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    I've backed the die out maybe 1/4 turn from contact with the shell holder.
    I am now only moving the shoulder back .002-.003 and no denting.

    Is there any problem with having the die backed out a little? One thing I didn't mention is that it took quite a bit of force to get the ram all the way up with the die 1/4 turn down from contact with the holder. It was difficult to get the shell out of the die as well, I had to put both hands on the handle to pull the case out of the die. Maybe my die is a little off??

    Is it possible my rifle has a little more room in the chamber than most and the shoulder is moving a lot???

    Yes, this is once fired factory Federal brass.
     
  5. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Of all the stuff I reload WSM brass is the worst to size, I have to use the Imperial wax. You may need to upgrade your lube.
    No problem with having the die out a little. From what I've gone through it may be an indicator that you be a little on the long side of head spacing, the problem I had with that is that you have to size down the base of the case to get them to chamber but that means your bumping the shoulder back what you measured earlier, which happens to be about where my Savage was before I set it to min then all these problems went away.
     
  6. BlackSS

    BlackSS Well-Known Member

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    This is a savage as well.
    No problem with the bolt closing on the spent casings that I tried.

    What do you mean by setting to min? You mean just moving the shoulder back as a very small amount like I have done by backing out the die until the shoulder measures .002 further back than it was before sizing?

    Thanks for the help and sorry for the dumb questions.

    If the shoulder has moved a lot from 1 firing I would expect that means headspace is on the long side. So from what I understand I should leave the base to shoulder length a little long (not necessarily back to factory spec's) so the round fits the chamber right???
     
  7. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Yes your correct. If you have a case that is a little hard to chamber, do as said previously and screw in the die little by little and test every time till it chambers without resistance.

    I used to resize using hornady 1 shot case lube, and then whiched to imperial sizing die wax. A WORLD of difference!! The stuff is great!

    IMO, you should get a shoulder bump die from redding, and a Lee neck sizer. That will make life a lot easier.

    Your die is sizing your brass to or near min saami specs, your overworking your brass and yourself with full length sizing all the time. Do it maybe every 3 or 4 reloads.
     
  8. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I thought you had said earlier that it was a Savage which makes it easy to get things tightened up if you need.
    If you can close you bolt on a fired, unsized case then you don't need to bump the shoulder back with the die, if you were needing to bump it back you would have a tight bolt because you would have to compress the shoulder a little to get it closed.
    Factory brass is on the small side so this first firing will be the most movement, and I have had it take 2-3 firings to actually get the shoulder blown out.

    What I meant by set to min was I set the head space using a head space go-gauge to zero and then I added tape to the back and I could not close the bolt so I am under .002 of head space. That turns out to allow me to set the die on the shell holder and just bump the shoulder as the handle cams over.

    If you can get away with it just setting up to bump the shoulder back and it fits your chamber your GTG, my problem is with full round house loads I had to move to much brass to get it back in the chamber at the head spacing it came with.

    I was all ways told the only stupid question was the one you didn't ask.

    If it gets down to it I can send you a piece of brass that you could use to check you chamber with to see how long it is, my brass is sized to .002 if head space in my chamber with is set to zero on a go gauge so it's easy to use to measure.
     
  9. BlackSS

    BlackSS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I' don't do a ton of shooting so if I'm tough on brass it's not that big of a deal. How many rounds do you think I'll get out of a casing using the full length dies? I've always heard WSM brass didn't last long anyway.
    I'll consider the other dies though, thanks for the suggestion.

    I'm using RCBS lube #2 I think, whatever came in the kit. I'll keep my eyes open for the wax next time in gun shop though.
     
  10. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this is if you romp on a 270 WSM at all you have to FL size every time or you won't get it back in, it's the nature of the beast if you push it. Idling it you would get away with it, maybe.
     
  11. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Here's the break down of case life before I set my head spacing to min and FL sizing moving a lot of brass. Winchester brass fails at 8 firing, Norma at 3 firing and Remington brass no failure at 18 firings but I retired it because the neck tension was getting off. My opinion if you learning to reload with a 270 WSM get a bunch of Rem brass.

    I haven't bought new win and norma brass to see what having a min length chamber does for life but it sure can hurt it. But I have a hundred fresh fire formed Rem one's ready to load for hunting season, if I can hold of and not blast them of.
     
  12. BlackSS

    BlackSS Well-Known Member

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    How do I go about setting bullet depth?
    I am going to give 140 gr nosler accubonds a try first as they shot well in factory ammo. How do I get the bullet set in the casing the right depth? I hear people saying .015 off the lands, but how do I know when I'm there?

    I'm going to try some loads with RL 19 & 22.
    I'm starting with 19 @ 58 gr and will have 3-4 loads as I work my way up to 64. Probably about the same for 22.
     
  13. LRSickle

    LRSickle Well-Known Member

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    You can either use the smoked-bullet method or the StoneyPoint/Hornady OAL gauge. I bought a gauge for >$30 and it's easy and accurate to use.



    As far as .015 off the lands being the best, that depends on the gun and bullet. I have a 6.5x284 that shoots best with the bullet nuzzled against the lands. I also have a 257Wby that has such a big jump that my bullet plops out of the end of my modified case before it touches the lands.

    Find a charge your rifle likes and then start changing you bullet depth, all the while looking for accuracy changes and high pressure signs. You gun will most likely have a sweet spot both in charge and bullet depth.
     
  14. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    To find the lands I started using a partially resized case, I pop the primer out and then size down the neck about and 1/8th of an inch then I seat a bullet and make sure it take just a little bit of pressure to move the bullet deeper, if it is to tight I just push the bullet side ways a little to loosen it up to the point I can push it in by hand but not really pull it out. Then with the bullet seated long I color the o-give area with a sharpy or smoke it and chamber it very slow and extract, if it pushes to hard into the rifling the bullet will stay and you have to pop it out with a cleaning rod. It takes a little practice, then you use the comparator in you gauge and measure the over all length of several tries, when I get rifling marks and every thing comes out right you got it.

    I then set the bullets .005 of the lands till I find a decent powder charge that is consistent and good, then I start moving the seating to find the perfect depth for my rifle. This way you won't have a hot load then move the bullet to the lands and start getting pressure signs and for hunting you don't want to be in the lands anyway so you don't have extraction issues.

    Just take one thing at a time and it won't get frustrating, and keep everything written down!!!