What is accurate?

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by mikekelly, Jan 22, 2006.

  1. mikekelly

    mikekelly Member

    Sep 27, 2005
    I had a very accurate factory rifle (rem. 700 LA) in .270win. After years of
    shooting it had to be rebarrled. I decided to go the hole 9 yards and build a
    precision rifle. Following is a list of components I used for a rebuild this
    hunting rifle into a precision .308win rifle.

    -Mike Rock 5R rifling double stress relieved stainless .30 barrel blank with a
    11.2" twist.
    -McMillan A5 stock
    -H-S Precision mag kit
    -Badger ordance recoil lug
    -Badger ordance muzzle break
    -Custom extended bolt handle

    I then had the lugs laped, the trigger done and the hole thing put together by a
    local guy. My problem is the rifle shoots no better than it did before, in fact it shoots worse! I feel lucky when I buy a factor rifle and it shoots 5/8" @ 100m, I feel taken when I get $3000 into a rifle that shoots 1-1 ¼” groups @ 100m. I have been handloading for years, Ammo is not the problem. My question is what groups can or should I expect form this rifle at 100-600m? I believe 1/4" 100m to 3 or 4" at 600m. My gunsmith says I am asking to much, what do you guys think?
  2. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Jun 13, 2007
    There is no doubt that gun with quality loads and MR 5R barrel should be under .5 quite easily IF it was put together right.

    Think it is pretty safe to say something is wrong with the gun or the scope in all probability.

    1. Change scopes with a quality scope that shoots good on another gun. Might be scope problem.

    2. Check bases and rings to make sure that they are tight and screws are not coming through rcvr. many times a base was not tightened down or forgot to tighten the rings. Check action screws for correct tension.

    3. Buy a box of Federal match or Black Hills reloads. Both will shoot under 1" normally, and use them for testing.

    4. A gunsmith that puts together a custom rifle and then says that sub 1" is asking too much makes me suspicious of his workmanship.

    5. Have someone else who you know can shoot .5 or better groups shoot it off a good rest or bags to confirm that it is not "headspacing" of the operator.

    6. After all that take it to another known quality 1k, br or tactical smith that can go through it and find out what is wrong. chamber might be offcenter for example. Have seen them .020 out.


  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Jan 20, 2004

    There seems to be some pieces of the puzzle missing.

    Your expectations are well within reason.

    I think the secret is in the proper mating of all of the components. I dink and fiddle with factory stuff and have quite good luck. But with the components you mention there would be less than a handful of smiths that I'd even let look at them let alone build the rifle.

    I think you'll hear plenty about this.....
  4. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2005
    I'd flat be pissed. Sorry but a rifle that is built with those components should easily shoot under.5. If the gun smith says your asking for to much to have a rifle shoot under 1moa at 100yrds then you need to find a new gun smith.
    Truly am sorry with how your rifle is shooting though after that much money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
  5. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2005
    Mickey, What was the accuracy of this custom gun before you talked about having the barrel taken off and recontoured? Did you have this done? Did your smith true the action before the build? How was the action bedded into the A-5?
    What is the barrel countour now?

    Sounds like your smith lacks some knowledge or experience in doing rifle builds if 1" is ok on a heavy barreled rifle. If that is what you have.

    Load up some reduced loads and fire them for accuracy. If they group good with low pressure loads I would say something is amiss with the truing/squaring or lug contact.
    Full pressure loads tend to magnify problems in this area.

    Check out the bedding and screw tension.

    Once in a great while you could get a bad barrel, this is unlikly though. If you talked to some one at Rock I'm sure they would volunter to scope the bore if you shipped it to them. They may find a problem with the chambering if thats where the problem lies.

    Good luck,
  6. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

    Feb 5, 2005
    "Load up some reduced loads and fire them for accuracy. If they group good with low pressure loads I would say something is amiss with the truing/squaring or lug contact.
    Full pressure loads tend to magnify problems in this area."

    Very good idea...

    I would try 41.0 grains of IMR 4895 and a 168 grain bullet. If this shoots well, move up to the next accuracy node at 43.6 grains IMR 4895 with the 168 and try again.

    Have you tried Federal Gold Medal Match in this rifle yet?

  7. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Dec 7, 2004
    Hate to hear this. I'm pissed if I can't get a factory rifle to shoot that well. I don't think I would be too nice about the situation either!!
  8. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

    Jun 12, 2001
    I don't know much about 270s but a 11.2 twist seems slow compared to a 7mm where a 9 or 10 twist is used. The 11.2 twist according to Lilja site is good for very light varmint bullets.

    Standard Weatherby and Remington twist rates is 10.
  9. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    Even if there is a problem with the rifle, I'd be leary of the smith and what he told you. His comment about expecting too much speaks volumes.
  10. nighthunter264wm

    nighthunter264wm Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    I agree with some of the above posts. You do need to realize that a different barrel will likely mean a different recipe for success in hand loading. If you are still having problems after load development, I would suggest taking it to a reputible Smith &amp; stay far away from the one who's standards are obviously lower than yours.
  11. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

    May 3, 2001
    11.27 is tha magic twist and that what's what Mike Rock turns out in the 308 M24 type barrels.

    I have a GAP rifle with that barrel and it'll put 5 rounds of factory FED GMM 168s under .5 MOA most every time.

    Get a box of factory GMM 168's or 175 (use 168's f1rst) and see how it does.
  12. 458win

    458win Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2004
    buffulobob... its a 308 now so 11.2 is just bout right/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Mickey if you put that much money in a rifle it better darn well shoot .5 at WORST! If the smith said you are expecting to much, he is obviously out of touch with reality. It also expresses how much he cares about what you think. If his attitude towards you reflects any on his quality of work well then its not your scope or componets or even the "headspace" behind the rifle...its just plain poor quality work. With that setup .25 should not be asking to much at all. I would check the obvious things on the rifle as mentioned before if that dont work send it to a gunsmith of reputable reputation. One more quick question have you ever had this smith build anything before or seen any examples of previous work? Keep us informed.
  13. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

    Jun 12, 2001
    458 thanks- My bad!
  14. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

    Jun 13, 2007
    Like 50 drivers sig line says "If it ain't accurate, lets make it that way."

    You have good components and unless the smith you have has totally botched the BBL up I'll just bet one of the local gunsmiths could put it together right. You may not have to buy it all over again. It will be a little more money but sometimes good lessons are a little bit expensive.

    Keep a positive attitude about this project. Your options are not over.

    BTW the line about the smith saying that &lt; 1 MOA being out of line WITH A .308 is complete crap. I wouldn't let him touch that gun again. Or any other gun of yours for that matter.

    Good luck. Keep us posted and use names if you need to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif