What if.... A remedy for the "cold shot".

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by fireworks, May 7, 2014.

  1. fireworks

    fireworks Member

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    Most long range shooters will agree the first shot at long range, or a "cold shot" say over 650-700 yards or even further can be less than accurate compared to the same shot two or three rounds later. At a target it's one thing, At a game animal it's a whole different matter. Complete misses or worse, a poor placement can occur. What if a guy had an answer for this? I have developed a prototype product that can eliminate this issue in the field and before I go through the layers of red tape in patenting it...what are folks thoughts on whether it would or could be marketable? How many out there would buy this? I'm about 90% ready, but researching patent laws, etc. I want to get a feel for if it's even worth the trouble.
     
  2. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    I really don't believe such a device can be built but if it can you'd certainly have a big market for it.

    There are lots of things that can be done to improve cold bore accuracy but nothing can totally eliminate changes that occur in the chamber and tube due to heat. Reduce them? Yes, eliminate them? No. Not until a new metal can be created that does not change dimensions with heating and which cannot be fouled.
     

  3. fireworks

    fireworks Member

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    I've been testing this device in the spring as of late. Early mornings with temps around 35-45 degrees. It's getting warmer now but I would set right up with the rifle staying locked in my winterized travel trailer overnight. I kept it in a cold environmment in a scabbard in the back of the truck while driving out of town. One morning I shoot at a 600 yd. Target, 4ft. By 4ft. Cardboard painted flor orange with a black circle 8" wide. Next morning I would return, device on and inside the barrell heating it (its really crude looking right now, but functionality is what matters right now.) Straight up one shot at the same target and compare. The previous day cold shot, lets just say its a good thing the target is as big as it is. The "heated shot" is much better, actually inside the blackened area most times. I have compared this scenario on 6 different cold mornings and the shot aided by the device is always better.
    Granted, this is not a $5000.00 custom rifle, but an off the shelf browning A bolt with some trigger and bedding modifications and a personal load that has taken alot of research. That being that, I find this device to substantially increase the accuracy of that moment in the cold fall when a game animal isn't going to give you a few warm up shots. Lol.
    The trick is to 1, heat the barrel evenly from the inside and all along the bore. 2, heat a slightly fouled barrel, not a spit shined clean one, and 3, the "device" cannot be made of metal itself as metal expantsionn would prevent easy removal at the moment of truth. So yes, the device must be removed prior to shooting, but at ranges that far, a little setup, ranging etc. Has to be done anyhow so one more step in your setup is not that big a deal.
    But so far, this thing appears to make a difference!
     
  4. RMulhern

    RMulhern Well-Known Member

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    There are THREE THINGS that make a huge difference!

    1. Accurate zeros

    2. Accurate Data Book

    3. Accurate zeros at varying temps!!lightbulb
     
  5. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    too many variables for consistent first shot accuracy in my opinion. Great concept but what happens when you travel to hunt and have a springtime bear 700 yards away and it's 80 degrees on June 1st and you use the same rifle at -10 in WY for a giant mulie at 875 yards and the wind is blowing which reduces heat?
     
  6. 4xforfun

    4xforfun Well-Known Member

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    First.....how does "wind blowing ...reduces heat"? Ten below is ten below. 80 above is 80 above. Wind hase NOTHING to due with ANYTHING. Now, once the tube is heated up the wind aids in cooling the BBL, but that is a matter of convection.

    As far as the OP...I don't have a problem with the first "cold bore" shot. I test my hunting zeros with cold bores..at least 1/2 hour between shots. And even if I didn't, if I had a bore that changed zero enough to matter due to heat I would convert it into a FF tube, a plinking tube, or a tomato stake.

    Never take a clean gun into the field.....mine all have at least 10 shots down the tube before I hit the field.
     
  7. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Well you ARE WRONG. WIND BLOWING ON WARM METAL COOLS IT.
     
  8. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    The real problem is not just heat alone it's how heat affects the varying amounts of stress within the barrel steel .
    Shooting at a consistant temp that you zeroed for would help some barrels and the powder pressure . Thats what we are trying to do by allowing barrels to cool between shots .
    The way barrels are made has a bit to do with how much stress may be present . I find that hammer forged barrels tend to be better at the cold bore shot but also have a few button rifled that shoot well cold .
    I think companies that stress relieve properly make a good cold shot barrel .
    Tuning in your load and zero to a cold barrel is also helpful as is not shooting seriously with a fully clean barrel .
    I like Sako's for this reason the ones I have put the first cold shot on zero .
     
  9. Marble

    Marble Well-Known Member

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    Would ambient air blowing on a barrel make the metal cooler than ambient?
     
  10. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    No

    My point is, if an artificial source of heat is used to pre-heat a barrel and that source is able to warm the barrel to temperature X (only), in a controlled environment, it will not do the same job in an extreme temperature change due to other variables such as a very cold windy day assisting a rapid cooling of a barrel or hindering a heat source v. a really warm day with no wind which will have much less effect on an artificial heat source.

    If I had a heat source on my barrel and it is -10 and I have a 18mph cross wind, that wind will not allow that heat source to do it's job effectively or the same as in a situation where it's 80 degrees outside and there's no wind. The cold wind is offsetting the heat source's ability to do it's work effectively.

    This is not rocket science. Anyone ever grilled out some steaks on a windy v. non-windy day? Better yet, am I the only shooter who's been at the range on windy days v. non or less windy and noticed my barrels cool much quicker when it's windy??
     
  11. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Not that I think it makes a huge difference in this discussion but the "chill factor" increases the cooling effect air. That's why you can make ice without refrigeration by circulating water cooled air.
     
  12. Marble

    Marble Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that. Air does chill, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make in our situation.

    We haven't seen the item being explained in the thread and if the "barrel heater" is something that slips of the end of a barrel and stock, then outside air wouldn't really matter too much. Seems that if you were getting "dope " for the scope and getting set up while the barrel warms. As soon as you get set up, remove the heater, place the gun and get set for the shot. The warming should still be beneficial. I guess some sort of testing revealing how much the barrel cools in respect to wind chill would be easy to figure out.

    It's an interesting subject.

    I for one would not currently carry anything like this barrel warmer unless it was very compact and very light. Most of the time, my shots are less than 500 yards and my rifle is accurate enough when cold to be able to hit a soda can at that distance cold. On a mule deer or elk, that's deadly accurate for hunting. If I were trying for something much further away, then maybe I would look into it.

    This past year was the only year since 2003 when I had so much time to shoot I could have warmed my barrel. But usually my window of shooting is less than a minute or two.
     
  13. diderr

    diderr Well-Known Member

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    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbMuknl677A"]Todd Hodnett- shooting on a clean bore - YouTube[/ame]

    So are you talking a device that eliminates a clean bore, or a cold shooter?
     
  14. fireworks

    fireworks Member

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    OK guys, here it is without giving too much away. A lot of comment and I love that. But sometimes you just have to just ask yourself does it work? Or doesn't it? My experience at the conditions provided in my opening post it makes a difference. ANYTHING that further advances your probabilities would be a good thing. Re-zeroing your rifle prior to a hunt to more appropriately match current conditions is always a smart thing to do. I will divulge this: the finished product will 1: heat the barrel from the inside and can be carried in an active condition for up to a full daylight cycle. 2: act as both a muzzle protector from debris as well as serve as a "self reminder" that an obstruction is in your barrel. And 3: it will not weigh any more than the 4 cartridges you carry in your mag. But this is not good for snap shots. You WILL need the time to remove it.