What does it take to hit at a mile?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by .30 CAL, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. .30 CAL

    .30 CAL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    So what does it take to hit at a mile? I went out today to stretch the legs of my rifles, and figured I'd try for the 'ol 1760 yards. We set up a 15 inch gong as the target. Had to GPS it because the swaro woldn't give me a reading past 1715, GPS read 1.00 miles. I ranged a midpoint both ways and ended up with a total of 1733 yards.
    I am shooting a 300 grain SMK out of a 338 Edge at 2825 fps. I had 53 MOA of elevation and 9 MOA of windage. I didn't connect with the target because I was either just left or just right or just high or just low. It wasn't my spotter miscalling my shots because I was also able to spot most of my shots and verify the impact.
    Those of you that shoot and hit a target this size what do you do to maximize your hit ratio?
    As far as brass goes I don't turn necks or anneal. Will this make a difference? I have. 002 of neck tension and shoulders are bumped back .002 as well. I didn't weigh cases I'm using Nosler brass.
    Bullets were weighed lightest was 299.9 grains and heaviest was 300.1 grains. Lengths varied .009, I tried to trim meplats but the trimmer was a joke so I left them as they came.
    Powder was H1000 92.0 grains. From 91.7 to 92.6 there was a 17 fps ES.
    primers were FEDERAL 215M.
    I was shooting from a solid bench using a caldwell dead shot bag filled with corn cob media (most consistent fill in my opinion) and a sock filled with 1 lb of lentils (don't ask).
    So what Voodoo gunnery do I need to be doing to connect?
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Hmmmm, It's late, I'm sleepy, but this was interesting to delve into.

    Roughed out some JBM calcs and came up with the following.

    1 MOA @ 1733 yds is about 17.33"

    Your gong is 15" diameter or about 0.86 MOA or +/- 0.43 MOA from center of gong.

    ES of 17 FPS = about +/- 9" (Italian math. . . )

    Or 2806 Min and 2824 Max MV.

    Assuming a bc =0.77 (works for me at 4488' ASL and "certain enviro. conditions)

    This comes out to be about +/- 0.45 MOA spread due to velocity or about

    Therefore, by my calculations (Italian math again) with a target of +/- 0.43 MOA and a consistency of +/- 0.45 MOA due to velocity my recommendations are the following to hit your gong.

    1. Shoot more shots. (increase your odds:))
    2. Use at least 20" target :)
    3. The over/under shots are due to velocity differences (Whatcha do about that? I dunno.)
    4. The left/right shots are due to wind. (Set down-range wind flags.)
    5. Up the velocity to about 3300, with the same accuracy and more of those left/right shots will be hits. (Hint, much larger cartridge. Italian thinkin' again:rolleyes:)
    6. Go to Shawn's or Darrell's class.:)
    The above list is intended to be at least a little humorous. Hey, I at least tried.:rolleyes:


    You're shooting very near the capability of your system. You'll find that 90% of the expense of anything is expended on the final 10% of progress.


    You're darn close but the learning curve gets steeper from where you are.


    If, this is your first stretch to 1 mile, you're doing pretty darn good!
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Duh, double post. Must be gettin' rummy:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  4. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,636
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    I agree with Roy, and I will add a few things as I shoot a mile fairly often.

    Me personally would get off the bench. I like the prone position better as it will compress the chest and lessen heart beat pulses.

    Secondly, if you are not fine tuning your parralax it could very well be some of the inconsistancy at 1 mile. That knob is NOT a focus.

    Choose a time of day when mirage is low. If you are seeing the target center dance around it will definatly open up your groups.

    Don't cook your ammo. After the first shot the chamber is warming up. Dont close the bolt and chamber a round till you are close to firing. If one bullet sets in the chamber a little longer and the case and powder gets heated up it will likely go higher. I have found that H-1000 is an awsome powder and is more forgiving than others for this, but I do all I can to make every shot the most consistant I can.

    Right before the shot, dig your toes in and preload the bipod with your shoulder. This is an aquired thing that will become consistant with practice. Just enough preload that you can feel the stock on top your shoulder so all slack is removed.

    Cheek weld!! The same every time. Get a feel for it and repeat it. ELR shooting is much like shooting a bow. All form and anchor points need to be repeated exactly for good results.

    Last, NO shooting matt under either end of the rife. No carpet, no towel nothing. It will open your groups. When getting set up reach forward with your left hand and scratch the legs of the bipod into the dirt. Repeat for each shot. Bags at the back need to be solid as possible. I like to set them high and then wiggle the stock down till I am solid on target and it stays there. Right before the shot, close your eyes and count to two. when you open them, if the sight picture and point of aim has changed you are forcing the rifle to be on target. Try to get it so it will stay on target by it self. I never wrestle with my rifle, I let it ride the bags and I only lightly control it. OH, and don't forget to get one last look at the scope evel just before the break of the trigger.

    Jeff gun)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,636
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    I want to add, don't believe all the "mile groups" you see on the net unless you were there. Shooting 1 mile is tough and the varibles like wind and all the error factors stack up fast. My last two groups were 3 shots at 1710 yards. First group went 16" second one went 10". These were better than average for me. I would in no way expect my next groups to be this good. But if they are anywhere near 1 moa I am very pleased. Especially if I am dialing for much wind at all.

    Jeff
     
  6. tackdriver10

    tackdriver10 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Broz, thats some great info.. I liked it so much that I printed it out as a reference...
     
  7. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,148
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    All very sound advice.

    I do however like to have a tarp or something out front to cut down dust signature and blow back dust.

    As silly as it may sound to some let me add one more.

    Try to time your trigger release between heartbeats.

    Even the slightest twitch at this kind of range is enough to turn a hit into a miss.
     
  8. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,636
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Agreed, the tarp out front would not be a problem as long as it is not under the bipod and would create a cushen or a slip. I will never own another radial brake again so dust blasts are a ting of the past for me.

    +1 on the heartbeat. If you can see it in the scope you need to learn to deal with it in one fashon or another. Sometimes a few deep breaths and let 1/2 out and hold will work too. The main thing is learn to control heartbeat if present and visable, weather it be timing or mentally reducing it. It can be dealt with.

    Jeff
     
  9. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,636
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Thank You, it works for me and the more I shoot the more it all becomes part of every shot.

    Jeff
     
  10. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,148
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    We covered a lot of this in this thread.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/trigger-timing-training-practice-80572/

    I live in and served in a lot of very dusty/sandy country. Even with a complete side discharge or forward angle discharging break you can easily get the target obscured/and or get quite the dust bath when firing in the prone.

    Putting the tarp in front of the bipod/rest extending just about six feet square eliminates the problem completely.
     
  11. TH

    TH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    403
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Don't be discouraged. It's sounds like you are doing everything right. Shooting at a mile any little condition change can effect the bullet impact. A small gust of wind or let up can push or pull the bullet right or left of your target. Sounds like the conditions were effecting your bullet. It happens in ELR shooting. If you go out tomorrow I'm sure the conditions will be much different.
     
  12. .30 CAL

    .30 CAL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    So after reading your suggestions I came up with a list of items to help me connect at a mile and changed my goal of hitting a 15 inch target to hitting it on the first shot. Let me know what I forgot or left out.
    royinidaho
    I agree more shots will increase my odds of connecting so I am going to shoot 20 shots per outing no more no less.
    A bigger target will increase my odds of a hit but I am not willing to lower a standard to gain success, so the largest target I will ever shoot at is 15 inches. 2000 Yards and 2640 will be the next milestones.
    Windflags, windflags, windflags, at a minimum I will be setting up flags at the target at 1000 yards and where I shoot from. I will probably get the kestral weather vane for my meter so I can monitor the wind constantly instead of just before I shoot.
    338 Allen Mag (I wish) 338 Edge is what I will be using. My buddies were using a 300 RUM and a 6.5-284. 6.5 surprised everyone not because it made it but because it kicked up more than enough dust to see impacts.
    BROZ
    Even though I would love to shoot prone my prone position isn't developed enough to shoot to a mile (in my opinion) so I am kind of married to the bench. I did notice when I lean into the bench and crush my chest my heartbeat is less noticable. Here's a pic so you can see the flat I am leaning against.
    I didn't adust for parralax on every shot because I was maxed out but I did notice on some shots if I moved it then maxed it out again the sight picture cleared up so I will do this for every shot.
    I didn't think of cooking ammo this may have had some effect on my high and low misses, so I am not going to shoot more than 2 without a cooling break.
    I did have a jacket under my bag and didn't think about it affecting POI. I do need some extra height so the butt of the rifle doesn't rest on the bench so I am getting a taller bag before my next outing. I don't have a scope level so I will get one as well because leveling the crosshairs just wont cut it at a mile, hopefully it brings my left and right in a little bit.
    WildRose
    Thanks for the link I will practice timming my trigger break between heartbeats.
    I'm going to make a checklist and put it on a card untill I memorize it, hopefully it helps with shot to shot consistency here's what I have:
    Bag positon on rifle (needs to be the same every shot)
    Natural POA (muscle the rifle as little as possible)
    Parralax (adjust it every shot)
    Wind (speed and direction)
    Dry fire once before every shot
    1000 yard warm up prior to shooting a mile
    I am also going to keep a mile log book it will have the following:
    Before Firing
    Date, Time, Range, Ammo, Light (where are shadows use clock format direction of fire is 12), Mirage (can it be seen good, fair, poor), Temp (ambient, barrel?), Wind (current, average)
    After Firing
    Elevation used (MOA), Wind call with windage used (MOA), Impact location (clock format high is 12 include distance from target)
    Lastly I've been using the following rules of thumb please correct me if I'm wrong or you use something else:
    20 Degree change in temperature equals 1 MOA shift in impact
    20 percent change in R.H. equals 1 MOA shift in impact
    Baro Pressure I do not compensate what is a good rule ie. 1000 ft change in alt equals 1 MOA
    Thanks for your help and sorry for the long post.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Attached Thumbnails - Click to View Larger [​IMG]


    Well there's your problem, your shooting from the wrong side of the gun!:D

    Tank
     
  14. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,636
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    I have a test for you if you like??? Do you have a video camera? If not maybe borrow one. Set it up next to you on a tripod on the bench. Then zoom it in on a target at 500 or so yards. Record while you shoot. I did this on a concrete bench at a local range. Legs are poured into concrete in the ground. I was amazed at how much some benches move under recoil. I am betting you will be to and go to the ground prone.

    Jeff