What do you tell those buddies (I use the term very loosely) who hit you up to "teach" them to shoot long range, but you suspect they will never make the effort to do it properly? Here is a tale of two would be long range hunters: A couple of years ago a young man that has been coming to our elk camp in NM for a few years bought a 300 RUM Sendero and asked me to help him set it up and teach him how to shoot well enough to kill an elk at 500 yards. I readily agreed and he came out several times and after correcting some shooting errors mainly to do with grip I got him shooting 6" to 7" groups at 500 yards. Not impressive by my standards but he was thrilled. Keep in mind this is off my bench with a good pedestal front rest. With a bipod he was less consistent but could mostly stay in an 8" group at 500. I told him that was ABSOLUTE MAX for him under good conditions. What did he do? He went to NM and shot at a bull elk 17 times at "around" 700 yards (he could not get a good read with his rangefinder). He finally hit the elk in the rear leg on the last shot. They did not find the elk. He did not even have his bipod because it makes his gun too heavy. He was using a tree limb for a rest. He then repeated almost the same thing last year with another wounded elk. Even though I tried to drill into him about knowing your limits and being sure of your shot, I feel responsible for creating a monster who will shoot at anything he sees. Second guy: A few months ago a guy from the local area found me on LRH, PM'ed me asked if he could come out and shoot and if I would help him learn about LR hunting. I agreed, he came out for a few shooting sessions. Being a mechanical engineer he grasped the MOA thing instantly. He has been very detailed, methodical and eager to learn not only how to do it right but why. In short, he is doing everything right and knows his limitations both personally and equipment and is working to expand his maximum range. I am glad I agreed to help him and will continue to do so until he gets tired of me or surpasses my ability and knowledge...... then he can teach me! It has been my experience with those who have asked me to help them shoot LR that the first example is what usually happens. I really hate to create those "monsters" who think they can shoot anything they can see. On the other hand I don't want to miss the opportunity to share what I have learned with those who will really work at it and learn like the second example. Anyone else out there deal with this type of situation??