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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
What caliber 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag
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<blockquote data-quote="NZ Longranger" data-source="post: 502168" data-attributes="member: 14"><p>MR,</p><p> You're not comparing apples with apples.</p><p> If you look through a few more manuals, in particular the Hornady one, you'll see data much more representative of the actual bullets you were comparing. The 162gn A-Max and the 208gn A-Max. The 208 A-Max and 210 Berger's from your example are practically identical as far as pressure and velocity limits. Hornady lists 3000 fps with the 162 out of a 24" barrel and 2850 fps with the 208 out of a 25" barrel. Out of the same length barrels there is 200fps difference between these two. You cannot push the 208 A-Max or 210 Berger at the same speed as the 162 A-Max at the same pressure out of the same length barrel - period. If you look at the data for the 175gn in the 7mmRM in the same manual, you'll see it listed at 2900 fps, 50 fps faster than the 208 A-Max, and out of a 1 inch shorter barrel. As I said in the post above, you can push the higher BC 7mm 180gn Berger out of the 7mmRM at the same pressure out of the same length barrel at the same speed as the 300WM pushes the 210gn Berger.</p><p> </p><p> You have then gone on to quoting your personal velocities, stating 3000 fps tops with the 162 gn and saying you can get 3200 fps with the 180 gn out of your 300 WSM. All I can say is you're not comparing apples with apples. You cannot be comparing the same length barrels at the same pressures.</p><p> </p><p> I was hoping not to have to go this far but since we're getting into personal load data now, here is some background on us to give some credibility to what I'm saying. We produce NZHUNTER Magazine, which sells more per issue than any other gun, hunting or general outdoor magazine here in New Zealand. The other division of our company is NZHUNTER Precision Rifles, which specializes in building custom rifles and doing load developments, and long range hunting rifles are our specialty. On our home range 10 yards from our load room door, we have a full Oehler Ballistic Laboratory set up, including pressure testing equipment, a full light box chronograph setup and down range acoustic targets. We do hundreds of long range load developments a year, not only on the custom rifles we build but also on customer's factory rifles and custom rifles built by other gunsmiths. We measure <strong>actual</strong> pressures and velocities, not best guesses. I have no caliber prejudices, and am only interested in the facts.</p><p> </p><p> As I said in my previous post, the best combination of BC verses velocity in the 7mmRM gives you a better chance of hitting your target area than the best in the 300WM. This is with currently available bullets. For any game animals that you feel the 180gn Berger or another of the high BC long range 7mm bullets is sufficient medicine, then the 7mmRM has a slight edge at long range over the 300WM. For bigger game that you feel the 175/180 match type 7mm bullets aren't enough for, then the 300WM has the slight edge. As LTLR says, the 300WM is a better all round North American big game cartridge due to the terminal performance edge it has over the 7mm's. This is especially so at close to medium ranges. At long ranges there isn't as much in it, and it depends whether you're in LTLR's camp of putting the emphasis on terminal bullet performance verses the other sides view that you're better to have the best chance of hitting them in the right place to start with. Obviously its about reaching the right compromise here, and it also depends on the size and toughness of the animals you hunting. </p><p> And that is what's it's all about really!</p><p> Greg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NZ Longranger, post: 502168, member: 14"] MR, You’re not comparing apples with apples. If you look through a few more manuals, in particular the Hornady one, you’ll see data much more representative of the actual bullets you were comparing. The 162gn A-Max and the 208gn A-Max. The 208 A-Max and 210 Berger’s from your example are practically identical as far as pressure and velocity limits. Hornady lists 3000 fps with the 162 out of a 24” barrel and 2850 fps with the 208 out of a 25” barrel. Out of the same length barrels there is 200fps difference between these two. You cannot push the 208 A-Max or 210 Berger at the same speed as the 162 A-Max at the same pressure out of the same length barrel - period. If you look at the data for the 175gn in the 7mmRM in the same manual, you’ll see it listed at 2900 fps, 50 fps faster than the 208 A-Max, and out of a 1 inch shorter barrel. As I said in the post above, you can push the higher BC 7mm 180gn Berger out of the 7mmRM at the same pressure out of the same length barrel at the same speed as the 300WM pushes the 210gn Berger. You have then gone on to quoting your personal velocities, stating 3000 fps tops with the 162 gn and saying you can get 3200 fps with the 180 gn out of your 300 WSM. All I can say is you’re not comparing apples with apples. You cannot be comparing the same length barrels at the same pressures. I was hoping not to have to go this far but since we’re getting into personal load data now, here is some background on us to give some credibility to what I’m saying. We produce NZHUNTER Magazine, which sells more per issue than any other gun, hunting or general outdoor magazine here in New Zealand. The other division of our company is NZHUNTER Precision Rifles, which specializes in building custom rifles and doing load developments, and long range hunting rifles are our specialty. On our home range 10 yards from our load room door, we have a full Oehler Ballistic Laboratory set up, including pressure testing equipment, a full light box chronograph setup and down range acoustic targets. We do hundreds of long range load developments a year, not only on the custom rifles we build but also on customer’s factory rifles and custom rifles built by other gunsmiths. We measure [B]actual[/B] pressures and velocities, not best guesses. I have no caliber prejudices, and am only interested in the facts. As I said in my previous post, the best combination of BC verses velocity in the 7mmRM gives you a better chance of hitting your target area than the best in the 300WM. This is with currently available bullets. For any game animals that you feel the 180gn Berger or another of the high BC long range 7mm bullets is sufficient medicine, then the 7mmRM has a slight edge at long range over the 300WM. For bigger game that you feel the 175/180 match type 7mm bullets aren’t enough for, then the 300WM has the slight edge. As LTLR says, the 300WM is a better all round North American big game cartridge due to the terminal performance edge it has over the 7mm’s. This is especially so at close to medium ranges. At long ranges there isn’t as much in it, and it depends whether you’re in LTLR’s camp of putting the emphasis on terminal bullet performance verses the other sides view that you’re better to have the best chance of hitting them in the right place to start with. Obviously its about reaching the right compromise here, and it also depends on the size and toughness of the animals you hunting. And that is what’s it’s all about really! Greg [/QUOTE]
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What caliber 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag
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