What Cal?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by skip AI, Apr 21, 2006.

  1. skip AI

    skip AI Well-Known Member

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    I currently own a .25-06 AI in a Sako L691.

    Although It still has a couple of hundred rounds left in it I have been latley been thinking If I should stick with this cal when the barrel wears out.
    I mostly shoot foxes, rabbit, hare, goat and pigs with this rig out to ranges of 400m and beyond.
    I would like to go heavier and bigger to extend my killing range.
    I was looking into a 6.5-06 AI but the more I look around the more I change my mind.

    So the question is what should I be looking at getting?
    And yes I want to keep and build off the action.

    TIA
     
  2. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Skip seeing how you already have all the loading equiptment fro the 25-06 I don't see any reason to change , its a good caliber and obviously has served you well if you like it.
    If your wanting to extend you killing range you could get some of the ULD type bullets that Kirby Allen uses to get suck amazing range from his 25 cals they are heavy for caliber and have a high BC. you could even have the gun chambered for the 25Gibbs that would give you a little more powder to boost the velocity some.

    Now the 6.5-06 is a great choice also I personaly would choose the Ai version to help with case life. This caliber launching a 142gr SMK at around 3000fps would put youn in the 1000yd club for the smaller varmints , not to sure I'd shoot a pig with the SMK at that range but 500 would not be a problem. I've shot them with up to 250lbs and out to 500yds with a 175gr SMK out of a 308 win and made all one shot kills.
    and for the samller varmints inside the 500yds range the 95gr V-max makes an awsome high velocity round , major splat factor!!

    Heck , I'm not sure what the volume of sahooting you do is but the 280Ai sure has some good balistics with the 168gr match type bullets and this would extend you killing range greatly on your bigger critters.
    Hell , sound to me like you need to rebarrel your Sako and buy another smaller varmint rig fro the little critters /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    but another gun is my answer for everything
     

  3. skip AI

    skip AI Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    but another gun is my answer for everything

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Same here but Ive had some car troubles latley which has taken my "spend on new rifles" money.
    I have thought of the heavier bullet choices but IMO they dont gain a great deal, Im looking for a calibre that is significantly better than the .257 interms of BC, weight and velocity.

    Im leaning towards a Larger hole anyway, I like .308 size but to gettem goin good it takes a tin of powder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

    cheers
     
  4. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

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    The laws of physics dictate that if you want to go with a .30 you're going to have to burn more powder and take more in the shoulder.

    For your purposes, honestly it sounds like you are well-served with the .25 or 6.5mm.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Skip AI,

    Dont equate bullet diameter to killing power at long range. Sure it has something to do with it but for the size of game you would be hunting, the 6mm is a great option as well.

    I assume you have a standard twist 25-06 AI currently. If you went with a 1-9 twist 6mm-06 you would see a ballistic improvement using bullets such as the 105 and 107 gr bullets. I would use the 105 A-Max for smaller game at long range and the 107 SMK for the heavier game.

    Ballistically, a 6mm-06 loaded with a 105 gr to top loads will ballistically smoke a 100 gr out of a 25-06 AI at long range.

    If you want to stay with a 25 cal or larger, there is nothing wrong with the 25-06 AI but I like a fast twist barrel instead of a standard 1-10. Wildcat Bullets makes some amazing 25 cal bullets. Starting with the 125 and 130 gr ULD RBBT and going up to the 142 gr ULD RBBT. There is also the 156 gr ULD RBBT but I personally feel this is to much bullet for the '06 AI other then for paper punching.

    The 142 gr ULD RBBT will offer higher BC then a 142 gr in the 6.5mm will and velocity will basically be identical. Just an option if you want to stick with the 25-06 AI since your already set up for it to load for.

    All you need is a 1-8 twist barrel and your on your way. You may be able to get away with a 1-9 but there are not that many out there and at the 25-06 AI velocities with the big 142 gr ULD RBBT I would personally go with a 1-8.

    The 6.5 and 280 versions are also great. The 280 needs quite a bit more bullet weight to be ballistically effective but barrel life increases as well, so does recoil so if you will be shooting alot, keep this in mind.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    what about the gibbs line of cartridges, I've heard some impressive things about the 6.5 gibbs.
    JS
     
  7. sambo3006

    sambo3006 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't the Gibbs rounds formed on the 30-06 case with the shoulder pushed forward and a shorter neck? I read somewhere that case forming is more complicated than just fireforming due to this. I wouldn't think that performance gain would be enough over the AI to justify more expensive dies and more difficult case forming.
     
  8. skip AI

    skip AI Well-Known Member

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    What about the 7mm's?

    I wont mind burning 60-75gns of powder a shot so what you think?

    cheers
     
  9. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

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    Been doing a lil research on the 6.5 gibbs, it has I think 8-9 grains gain of powder capacity over the parent case. Have read that with a good barrel 28" long will duplicate 264 WM 24" performance with better barrel life, I may let you know, got a 270 win settin in the safe not doing nothin.
    JS
     
  10. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Skip with a 7mm burning 70 od grains of powder that going to be the 7mmRem mag size. Like Kirby said when you move up in bullet weight and velocity the recoil also gues up ad the barrel life gets shorter. The 280Ai with a good 26"will duplicate 7mmRem mag factory ammo when shooting bullet up to 150 grs once the bullets get heavier the barrel either has to get longer or the case bigger. Also the choice of varmint bullets goes away prett quick.
    if it were me personaly , I'd probably go back with the
    25-06 wight a fast twist and shoot he heavy for caliber Wildcat bullets for long range and the lighter varmint bullets for the short stuff. But if your looking for a good "deer" rifle and the smaller stuff is not gonna be shot at as much then the bigger 280 would be good choice.

    You mentioned that you diden't want to burn a pan of powder to shoot a 308 , well my 308 burns less powder than your
    25-06. The 308Winchester is a good LR caliber thats often overlooked due to the new mags but it'll get out their and print groups at 1000 yds with the big mags it just takes a little more dope work on your part. Seeing that you have a long action you could use 190-220 gr bullets and seat then way out and these high BC will cary good accuracy way out.
    If I'm not mistaken a guy that shoots with Kreg Slack uses a 308Ai and 240gr bullets to shoot out to 2 MILES !!
    I think thtas a hell of a strech for the little case but they do it
     
  11. skip AI

    skip AI Well-Known Member

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    If I was going to go .308 I would get the bolt face opened up and get a .300 WSM that will be able to seat the 200 and 220gn bullets out far enough so that the case capacity is not reduced like in my .300 WSM A-Bolt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I like the sound of that.

    Can someone provide some data on the .280 AI (standard bullets) and .25-06 AI (shooting the wildcat bullets)?

    cheers
     
  12. Brent-AR-30-338

    Brent-AR-30-338 Well-Known Member

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    nosler 280 AI, 24", 1-9", Fed.210;

    MAX. LOADS!!!

    140gr.-
    IMR 4350... 57.5gr. 3134fps
    IMR 4831... 58.5gr. 3164fps Most accurate.
    RL19... 60.0gr. 3146fps
    VN160... 60.0gr. 3152fps
    RL22... 63.0gr. 3196fps

    150gr.-
    IMR4350... 56.5gr. 3014fps
    H4831sc... 60.5gr. 2994fps Most accurate
    RL22... 61.5gr. 3095fps
    VN165... 63.0gr. 3055fps
    IMR7828 63.0gr. 3107fps

    160gr.-
    IMR4350... 55.0gr. 2901fps
    H4831sc... 56.0gr. 2855fps
    RL22... 58.5gr. 2929fps
    IMR7828... 60.0gr. 2962fps
    VN165... 61.0gr. 2963fps

    175gr.-
    IMR4350... 51.0gr. 2719fps
    H4831sc... 54.0gr. 2707fps
    VN165... 57.0gr. 2748fps
    RL22... 56.5gr. 2808fps
    IMR7828... 58.5gr. 2828fps most accurate

    Hope this helps, compares balistically identical to the 7mm Rem short mag. An excellent caliber, I'm more partial to the 6.5mm bore than the 7mm IMO... 6.5-06AI?? Got some 6.5-06 data if you're interested (NOT A.I.), all from Nosler Fifth Edition.
     
  13. skip AI

    skip AI Well-Known Member

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    They seem like a good performer.

    Any data on the .25 with wildcats?

    cheers