weighing and sorting brass & weighing, measuring and sorting bullets

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by dmax1800, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    I'm using Norma brass and Barnes TTSX and Nosler AB bullets in .270 and 300 win mag. For now I'm limiting my shooting distance to 400 yards.

    In the past I've weighed & sorted brass in 2 grain lots and measured bullet bearing surface & sorted in .002" lots. The bearing surface of the last batch of 270 bullets ranged from .687" to .697". I just recently started weighing bullets and found out that almost half were more than .1 grain more than the rest. Now if I measure these bullets than are within .2 grains (+ or - .1 grains), out of 150 bullets I may have only 20 that are within .2 grains and .002" in bearing surface of each other.

    I know that guys shooting 1000 yards do all this sorting. My question is: how much difference in accuracy is all my weighing, measuring and sorting going to make at 400 yards? Is it really worth all the time sorting? Would you guess it could make a difference in accuracy of 1/2", 1" or 2" at 400 yards???

    I know I could do some tests, but I think it would take a lot of ammo, primers and powder to do a conclusive test. I'm looking for some expert help so that I don't have to spend all the time and money doing some tests.

    Thanks.
     
  2. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    I stopped sorting Barnes bullets. Over the last year and a half the deviation became too small to bother.

    I still sort brass and if I were a Nosler shooter would sort them.
     

  3. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    I think the accuracy deviation at 400 yards would be more like the odd wild shot 6" or more out. For target completely unacceptable for hunting not as bad but are you going to double guess your followup shot?
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,248
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    You're wasting energy better spent somewhere else.
    Weighing brass -meaningless
    Bullet bearing -meaningless
    .1-2gr bullet weight -maybe 5fps only with a very efficient load(unlikely in 300WM this side of a ~40" barrel).

    For the learning, you might assemble the spreads in extreme and do some testing. I'm confident with this you'll arrive at my sentiments about it.
     
  5. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    This is the fun part of reloading and the internet, two people claim polar positions.

    It works for me. It does not work for Mikecr. Will it work for you?

    The difference in positions is Mikecr's presents like and insult if you don't see his position and will continuously berate anyone who disagrees.

    What works for me works for me. I never use works to other people like 'wasting your time' but it is an advantage and disadvantage of the internet. Anyone can post anything without consideration of someone else's desires in this world.
     
  6. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    I forgot something.

    If this is for pure big game hunting loads, there is a difference in perceived accuracy requirements. Varmint loads are different from big game loads are different from paper/steel loads.

    For big game, paper plate sized groups at the maximum distance expected is acceptable to many people. Even to me if the hit is the first shot and the drop is instant fine. I don't need 1" groups to drop a pig at 300 yards, just did that for the first time. My buddy I load for has his longest large pig at 1065 yards. This was from a hunt he won as a 'bet' with the guide regarding a 645yard shot. BTW: according to my buddy, at 1000 yards you don't have to be quiet.

    For varmints, bottom of a coffee cup at the maximum distance expected is fine for me. When working a 223 at 300 yards, for me this takes sorting.

    Hunting paper or steel, a dime at 100 yards is to much for me. a quarter at 300 yards is too much for me. a silver dollar at 600 yards is too much for me.

    Accuracy, spreads, deviations are all defined by your goals for that round and rifle combination in the conditions and intended use. Sometimes all the sorting, weighting and measuring is more than required for the intended use but it's never a "waste of time" as learning consistent processing is always useful.

    Like I said, Barnes are so accurate now I no longer sort them. Other bullets, even Bergers, yup, I sort.
     
  7. moombaskier

    moombaskier Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    405
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    I do all of that and more. Does it make my ammo more accurate than my ability to shoot? I don't know, but it sure does give me the confidence to make a better shot. I know when I settle in for that once in a lifetime opportunity I have done everything I can to help make the best ammo possible. Attitude plays a big role in how accurate I shoot.
     
  8. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,280
    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    I never sort brass or bullets. I've done it for kicks but I find getting a barrel shooting a bullet it likes is more rewarding. Most of the time the bullet and barrel co-existing well accounts for 90% of your accuracy and your powder and primer choices will account for most of the rest as long as your brass is reasonably uniform. I've done ladder walk ups with rifles with 5 or 6 grain charge spread and all shots fell into < 1 inch at 100 yards. My pop's 7mmstw is a prime example; when we first got stw's I took his rifle out with aa8700 test loads with sierra 140's on top to see what she'd do. I only loaded one of each from 90 gr to 95 gr. and all bullets fell into .9" even though the extreme spread was nearly 300 fps with a 3500 fps top velocity.

    The biggest damage I've seen is overloading blowing groups or crappy shooting/ poor bench skills making a good load show poorly.
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,248
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    dmax1800,
    Have you measured & matched:
    Cases by thickness and thickness variance?
    Cases by H20 capacities?
    Bullets by meplat diameters?
    Necks by seating forces?
    Primer pockets & seating?

    How accurate is your:
    Powder dispensing?
    Seated OgvOALs?
    Shoulder bumping?

    Have you developed and established cold-bore accuracy to distance limit for killzone?

    Just curious.
    Since I'm taking flak, I should probably check my perspectives about productive efforts.
     
  10. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Nose a lot of buzz words don't he.
     
  11. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Have to agree with Lefty and Mike. I will sometimes weigh and sort bullets for kicks... but how do you sort them? By wieght? By bearing? By meplat? In the 30 cals, 10 grains of bullet weight is equal to about 100 fps. Do the math and .1 gr is equal to about 1 fps. Bearing probably has a little more effect. I might weigh a lot and take a few off the extreme ends to use for foulers or whatever.

    What about brass? What is more important, weight or volume? Volume is. Weight does not necessarily equate to volume. If you're going to sort brass. it's best done by water volume.
     
  12. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Perhaps I'm just a sensitive sort of guy who cut his reloading teethe getting a 223 to fly.

    What ever the case, from my knowledge base, weighing and sorting I'll stand by.
     
  13. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Too bad you live so far away. If you lived closer, next time I run off a couple thousand reloads, you could come weigh and sort everything and I can watch.....:D
     
  14. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,585
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Thank you for that opportunity or more importantly this opportunity.

    Not every reloading situation demands the same attention to detail.

    SidecarFlip seems to be referring to reloading for a point and spray type devices. Waste of time indeed sorting bullets or brass for such a device but then it is my belief that for hunting or accuracy shooting the point and spray device is a waste of time. To each his own I guess. Y`all'd be better off getting some milsurp and getting off the reloading forums cuz ya don't know cu about cumber much less anythin about reloadin.