Volume vs weight 777

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by ShootnMathews, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. ShootnMathews

    ShootnMathews Well-Known Member

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    I'm shooting 777 in my .50 because its what I have on hand. My question is, if I weigh 150 grains of powder or 100 grains ( this is hypothetical) on my reloading powder scale, is it the same as the prepackaged pellets?? So to make this more simple, does 100 grains of loose 777 powder weighed on my powder scale preform the same as 2- 50 grain pellets??
     
  2. ATH

    ATH Well-Known Member

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    100 grains volume is very different from 100 grains weight. You can't interchange the two.

    The pellets are calibrated to be equivalent to the grains by volume. A load of two 50-grain pellets should give you similar velocity as a loose load of 100 grains.

    If you want to go by weight, volume measure your load then put it on the scale and see what it weights. It's been years since I did that but from memory, if you volume measure a max 150 grain load you will find it weight a lot less than that....weigh 150 grains on a scale and you will over-charge your gun.
     

  3. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    ATH is correct... !!

    T7, Pyro or any other propellant is different in consistency and size granules. THAT'S why they want you to use either pellets or a volume measure of loose powder. Assuming that 100grs weight of T7 would equal 100grs by volume will get you into trouble.

    ASSUMING............ that your volume measure is correct and they can be off as much as 30grs and I have one, if you had one that was accurate, then you could fill the volume measure to 100grs, then pour it on the scale to determine the weight. I would highly suggest that you do this at least 10 times, write down each volume load by weight, then average the ten different. Many shooters that I know use the T/C model that you can see through and it appears that most are fairly accurate.

    On my old desktop that went kaput.... I had the conversion number that another shooter had put together for T7. That's gone like the desktop.
     
  4. screwwork

    screwwork Member

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    T7, 100grains max load by volume for the 50cal muzzle loader.
    Please let me know if I am wrong on max load.
     
  5. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    That............ depends on the specific muzzleloader you have, which you didn't mention.

    With some muzzleloaders a 100gr VOLUME charge is about max. On the other hand, most newer modern in-lines are capable of a 150gr VOLUME max load..... although most don't shoot a max load as accurately as a somewhat lighter load.

    For anyone to provide an accurate answer..... what muzzleloader do you have? What does your manual say if you have one?
     
  6. screwwork

    screwwork Member

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    Encore,
    Your correct I didn't say what gun I was using, it is hard to help me without the info needed to safely point me in the right direction.
    I have the TC Pro Hunter 50 cal muzzleloader rifle.
    T7 container label said max load was 100 gr by volume, my TC Encore manual said rifle max load was 150 gr by volume. This where my I misunderstood the max loading of T7 for my Muzzeloader. as I'm not planning on using the max load but a load that works good in my gun an accurate.
    Right now I have 2 lbs of T7 and after I use it up I'll switch over to BH 209 powder.

    Thanks Randy
     
  7. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    The Encore platform rifles are what I shoot. I've had a number of them, with some handed down and others sold. Been shoot'n them since I could get my hands on one. Every one of them have been exceptionally accurate. I'm now down to just three muzzleloaders, one being "Bad Medicine" a Pro Hunter 209x50. I don't care for T7 and never did, although its a good propellant. You could shoot a max load of T7 VOLUME but, I'd reduce the charge by at least 10% by VOLUME. How it will shoot would have to be proven.

    I know a lot of shooters with Pro Hunters and each one of them is capable of 200yd accurate shots of 4" or less. However none of them are shooting T7 and are shooting BH209, with most shooting a Barnes. I know a couple guys that shoot further, with one taking a nice buck at 287yds last year. However he shoots a considerable amount each year. Michigan had close to 660,000 deer hunters last year and we have a lot of muzzleloader shooters.

    I know it feels like a waste to leave two bottles of T7 on the shelf but, once you turn to BH209 and start shooting it, you'll be happy to leave the T7 on the shelf. Its the only propellant I shoot, other than 2f in my sidehammers.

    My load........ 107grs VOLUME ........ (75grs weight)
    CCI209M primers
    Barnes 250gr TMZ

    I couldn't be happier gun)
     
  8. screwwork

    screwwork Member

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    Thanks for the advise Encore, I see a trip to BPS is in order for me to get some BH209.
    Im looking forward to trying out your load data at the range :)

    I already did the Mike Bellm's trigger tuneup kit, headspace shims and heavy duty locking bolts springs forall of my other TC barrels. That was the best thing I could have done to my Pro Hunter, what a great shooting gun I have now. Mike was great to talk to and what great customer service. He helped me get everything I needed in very timely manner.

    Randy
     
  9. ShootnMathews

    ShootnMathews Well-Known Member

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    Well my goal is to try to get my muzzleloader to shoot just a little better. It's shooting great now for what it is but I like to squeeze every drop of accuracy out of all my guns. It's a passion I guess. My setup is:

    CVA Optima Pro .50
    Nikon omega was on it but I switched to a Bushnell elite since I prefer dialing
    Leupold steel rings


    I've been shooting the regular pyrodex pellets. 2 pellets (100 grains) under TC Shockwave 250 grn bullets. All of these, gun, bullets, and pellets are what I'd call less than precision components, but it shoots 5" groups at 300 yards. So I thought by weighing powder and switching to one of the supposed better bullets like a Barnes that maybe I can squeeze her down to say 4" at 300 and have a fair long range muzzleloader. This one seems to be a real shooter for what it is.
     
  10. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    IMO if you want long range accuracy from a production muzzleloader, loose is the way to go. I've read many posts where shooters have shot through chronographs many rounds with pellets and the differences in fps is considerable. Then these same shooters shot WEIGHED loose powder through the chronograph with very little difference in fps. Although there are other variables involved, such as bullet seating force, with the difference in pellets vs loose powder and fps, loose weighed definitely gives better consistency.

    The Shockwave can be a very accurate bullet and I've shot a few myself but, found that performance on game didn't meet my standards. Although they're a reasonably priced bullet and in most rifles can be very accurate, I've seen some that have exploded, where others haven't expanded properly. Lots of guys shoot them and their different colored tip twin, the SST, both made by Hornady.

    Now don't quote me on this but, I believe with centerfire shooters, that they really don't have concerns shooting a BT or Spitzer out to 200yds, with neither bullet having the edge. Its the ranges beyond 200yds where the BT starts to have the edge. With the muzz, I'm looking for ANY contributing factor that might add even the slightest improvement, which is why I shoot the Barnes 250gr TMZ, which is a BT. How much of an edge is gives, really isn't important if it gives even the slightest edge. There's no question on its reliability and performance on game.

    Here's some examples of Shockwave performance.

    [​IMG]




    Barnes performance....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ShootnMathews

    ShootnMathews Well-Known Member

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    Thanks encore. I deffinately am going to try the TMZ. I have only shot two deer with the shockwave and am not really impressed. Killed the first deer (10pt) well but did not do as much damage as I like. The second deer, a doe my friend shot with this gun ran about 40 yards and laid down. 20 min later we killed it with a knife. Bullet punched straight through with no expansion.

    I think my plan for now is to volume measure some 125 grain loads and weigh them. Average out a number and the weigh the powder under a tmz. I think I will get better performance. We will see.
     
  12. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    Good thread..... Is CO the only state that doesn't allow sabots? I really wish we could try some of these better bullets, stuck with powerbelts I guess.
     
  13. ShootnMathews

    ShootnMathews Well-Known Member

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    I used the power belts when they first came out. Accuracy was fair in this gun and game performance was pretty good. They expanded better than the shock waves for sure
     
  14. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    NOT SO.................

    Personally......... I don't have one good thing to say about the PB bullet. If there is an unreliable bullet, that's #1. More hunters have lost more animals to that bullet than any other that I know of. There are much better choices available......

    Here's a bullet you can use in CO and its a Barnes.... https://thorbullets.com/

    Read the information on it. MANY shooters in the western states which don't allow saboted bullets are using these. Same Barnes performance :D