UPS strikes again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by specweldtom, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    This morning I tried to ship a take-off barrel from the UPS company terminal in Angleton, TX. This is not a privately owned UPS "Store". I patiently explained that the stripped barrel was not a firearm, but the lady said it could only be shipped by a licensed dealer. She went on to explain that they wouldn't ship any firearm parts except by a dealer.

    I have occasionally seen threads about problems with UPS, but this one seems silly. The USPS shipped it and the only questions they asked were was it fragile, did I need insurance and did I need someone to sign for receipt.

    Is this a common occurance at UPS, or might it be just my terminal? Does anyone know of any recourse? This sure takes the shine off doing any business with them.

    Tom
     
  2. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    Make them call their regional/national service center and ask, or ask for the manager. The lady didn't know the rules!!!!

    Bill
     

  3. MagMan

    MagMan Well-Known Member

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    When going to UPS I've learned to use terms like "manufactured alloy cylinder" instead of "rifle barrel".....It seems to help.
     
  4. Moorespeedr

    Moorespeedr Member

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    Creative euphemistic approach!
     
  5. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    UPS, as a privately owned and operated company, can either deliver or refuse to deliver anything they choose, and their decision doesn't have to be based on Federal firearm laws. Same as flea-Bay deciding not to allow any gun related auctions.

    But it does seem silly that UPS wouldn't ship a 20-30" long piece of pipe.
     
  6. pinshootr

    pinshootr Well-Known Member

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    Rule #1 NEVER ADMIT THAT IT IS GUN RELATED Then you never have problems lots of other things in this world that look and weigh the same. lightbulblightbulblightbulb
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    So what do you do when it comes up missing or damaged? Since a US postal service employee stole a 5 panel 460 Weatherby Lazermark from me, I am a bit cautious. Never did get it back. So are you suppose to fib or stretch the truth about the contents, then eat it when they deni the claim?

    Jeff
     
  8. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    You determine the value when you insure the package. Nothing wrong with a highly machined, fluted and grooved piece of pipe worth $1000!

    Or custom manufactured and machined machine parts which are worth $5000!

    UPS, as a common carrier, is required to obey the laws regarding shipping of packages. As long as they are packaged correctly, and as long as they are legal to ship, and as long as you meet the guidelines established by UPS, they are obligated to ship.

    This lady cannot deny business for a PUBLICLY owned company simply because she doesn't know the rules. The people holding stock in UPS certainly don't want their employees turning down legal business.

    UPS can and does ship firearms, period. Their rules say they must do so as long as their guidelines are followed. It says NOTHING about dealers, etc.

    Bill
     
  9. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Copied and pasted from www.UPS.com

    Shipping Firearms[​IMG]Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
    Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm ShipmentUPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

    • Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
    • UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
    • UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
    • Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
    • Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
    • UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.
    [​IMG]
    Follow These Packing Requirements
    • Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
    • Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
    • Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.
    [​IMG]
    About Documentation and Labeling
    • The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.
    [​IMG]
    Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
    • You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
    • When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
    • You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
    • See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    UPS is a privately-owned company just as much as WalMart, Google, Microsoft and Intel. If they choose to refuse the shipment of guns and gun parts, I'd be surprised to learn that they would be in violation of any state or federal laws. No different than some privately owned and managed discount stores making the decision that they won't sell firearms or ammunition.

    There's a difference between a privately owned and operated company whose shares of stock are available for purchase by the public, and a publicly owned and operated company (meaning government owned and operated) such as the US Postal Service.

    But it look's like UPS policy is to ship firearms provided you follow all of their private company dictated policies, on top of complying with all applicable US State or Federal laws. I'd say the lady didn't follow UPS company policy by refusing to ship the gun barrel. I wouldn't say she committed any crime, punishable under Federal or State law.

    UPS might choose to discipline her as a company employee. No District Attorney is going to file criminal charges against her.
     
  11. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone said she broke the law, only that UPS is obligated to follow the laws as required of common carriers.

    She wasn't following UPS policy, pure and simple. Not a law violation, simply not following the obligation that UPS publicly espouses.

    As far as private vs. public corporations, UPS is a PUBLICLY traded stock, thus a "public corporation" although the term can also be used to describe those companies owned by a government entity (sometimes also called "Crown Corporations).

    There are short explanations here:

    Public & private corporations — Corporate governance

    and here:

    NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Public company

    phorwath, all the companies you named are actually publically owned corporations, those which offer their stock through a public offering through a stock exchange. Private companies or corporations do not do so. They are also called "closely held" corporations.

    Koch Industries, Cargill, IKEA, Bosch, Flying J, are all examples of very large privately held companies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  12. pinshootr

    pinshootr Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess broz your gun was marked as a gun ???? yes just asking to be stolen!!!!!!! Much safer to package and not claim as a gun than be out in the open. Have never had one problem with a non-gun package yet and have shipped over a dozen the past few years.
     
  13. LewisH

    LewisH Well-Known Member

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    I've encountered dumbass clerks like this at UPS terminals , USPS, and especially FedEX.

    Never try to argue or reason with these people. Just call for the manager immediately, and always have a copy of the company firearm shipping rules.
     
  14. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    I knew at the time that I (nor UPS) wouldn't be violating any law, but like Phorwath, I just figured that they could have any dumbass rule that they wanted to, and moved on.

    Based on a lot of good, specific information in the replies, I am actually looking forward to another opportunity to ship a firearm part. Should be very entertaining.

    I thought about calling it something else and trying again at a UPS Store, but just decided that I shouldn't have to do that.

    BWaites and Jeff, thanks very much for your time and info. I'll print a copy of their rules. I'm looking forward to round 2! This thread was like reconnaisance. Information is power!

    Thanks very much to all, Tom
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009