Ultimate Scope, input please

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Pete Lincoln, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Guys and Gals.. i am currently fairly well involved with a european optics manufacturer. the intention is to introduce a line of hunting and tactical scopes. we are looking at whats already available and what is desirable but not available. this is a chance to have a line of scopes developed from the ground up to meet certain specifications. What would you guys want. Objective size, tube diameter, magnification range, adjustement type etc. We can use info at the design and market research stage, I'm asking for longrange hunting's input on this, come on folks this is a real opertunity to get what we want in a scope without comprimise.
    Thanks Pete
     
  2. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Pete

    Thanks for this opportunity.

    My thoughts, basic first then wish list:

    1. Non-rotating ocular when power is changed OR integral lense cover with non-position sensitive release mechanism. Maybe a lense cover system thats screw in like a shade, a very short shade with a lid.)

    2. Large "knobs" for elevation, windage and parallax (if parallax is an option) with caps that can be used or left at home. (Like Mark 4 type but with caps so tight transport options like scabbards and such don't screw things up.)

    3. A "zero" stop.

    4. Large tube (30mm minimum) but a small(ish) objective (40mm) so we can get a low mount.

    5. Non/low change in eye relief on power change.

    6. NON-canted reticle, quality reticle installation, not more than + or - 2 degrees or so.

    7. Finish... matte OD would be a nice color option (Wish list: a slip on/around scopesleeve of heavy plastic with embedded color).

    8. Power range(s), 2.5 x 10, 4 x 16, 6 x 24, ??

    9. Calibrated reticle(s), Mil-Dot, MOA, ?? (Wish list: Add enough dots/lines to the vertical component to allow use of the entire viewable reticle rather than "wasting" the top and bottom. Add enough lines/dots to the horizontal reticle to use it for fast movers, 10 20 30 mph (15 to 20 MILs lead).

    10. A TOUGH main tube and innards, no worry about bending or crushing the tube on rough use.

    11. Extra springs for the erection tube on all planes so absolute return to zero and repeatability.

    WISH LIST:

    1. Internal (calibrated/accurate) graduated Cant indicator

    2. Internal (calibrated/accurate) graduated Inclinometer

    3. Installable filters, Polarized, etc

    4. Internal compass (it's a wish list!)

    5. Matching spotting scope system or a cradle/clamshell housing to use a spare scope as a spotting scope. (We should be able to call "bearing" and incline "angle" to get spotter and shooter on target together.)



    Enough for now.
     

  3. sierra22

    sierra22 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, would that be S&B?

    Very much agreeing with Dave King - and wouldn't mind seeing a OD green scope either.

    Single turn MIL knobs, 0,1 MIL clicks.
    Type German 7 crosshair with vertical post 1 MIL below center for quick adjustments in dialed in range.
    Plenty room for windage/ lead. Solid posts at 5 mil that extend below and above vertical line.
    Choke-type range estimator - it's just as accurate as a mildot but faster when using the killzone the trajectory offers. When you have the time, most people laser anyway.

    It'll be a fast reticle for last second correction. After all, you put down a baseline calculation and make correction on the scope - longrange isn't looking through a scope and blasting away.

    Provisions for sunshade and truly watertight lens covers.
    And what I would really like (that we won't see on the civilian market):
    Integrated barometer and termostat with calculator microchip to automaticly show corrected comeups.
    HUD that shows present input.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think Dave was reading my mind on most of the thougths...

    OD green would be nice or....

    A scope built to with stand a heat treatment of teflon coating.. there for you could match your rifles colors exactly.. again wish list qualified...

    I will second the
    30mm or 34/5 mm tube...

    reticle options such as...
    MLR (type )
    MOA (type )
    mil-dot ( gen 1 and 2 )
    I also would like to see on the verticle cross hair.. increments of 1 moa, 5moa, 10 moa
    then on the horizontal 1moa, 5moa
    etched glass of course...
    FFP!!!
    Lit as well red or green option..

    I would change nothing about S&B's power ring adjustment system.

    haveing S&B scopes... I feel their turrets are paralled by none... wide. yet low.... hard firm clicks....
    the yellow window corresponding with the yellow numbers is simply incredible....

    I like the automated easy zero stop feature as well....

    I would like to see a 40mm/42mm/44mm objective as Dave mentions... low is good.. the lower the better....

    an affordable matching spotting scope is a paramount idea.. with the option to have the same ret. installed....
    a 10-30X power range...

    wish list as well....

    I would like to see a small level installed internally... this level would be calibrated with the ret. installed, therefore is the ret. has an error of 1* or 2* the level would have the same error...

    given the lists from above and including mine..

    I see this ultimate scope/spotting scope feature..
    costing the consumer... $5000-$7000 as a package.

    anyway to keep the cost reasonable...??

    ok so my thoughts were more scattered than Daves but hell I got all excited about someone listening to my input.. ok ok.. at least letting me thing they will listen.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  5. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Well hell if a guy is going to dream in print, why not a laser range finder in the scope. You would not have to take your eye off target to range, we already know the other conditions before we sight the target. Just seems the final solution to what would be a great scope. P.S. has to weigh under two pounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  6. victor

    victor Well-Known Member

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    Great ideas above, but adding the range finder into the scope sounds like the best idea to me. Should be easy to do. Activation button should be near the trigger area on the rifle so your trigger finger could depress it, but make it so it is clearly identifiable from trigger (think safety). Add to that a drop calculator with software that allows you to input your load data (when you put the scope on another rifle you change your load data).

    Then all you do is aim your scope at a target, you press the ranging button, you get a distance read out in your scope, and in the same instant your calculator tells you how many clicks to adjust your turrets to hit the target.

    Should be possible with all the miniture circuitry available out there.

    When can we put our orders in???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  7. Brown Dog

    Brown Dog Writers Guild

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    Bloody hell, great ideas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, let's make it a particle-beam weapon too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Ideal scope:

    4-16 S&B PM2 technology in a less club-sized heavyweight package.
    Keep the 34mm tube, put the rest on a photocopier and reduce to 85% of current size.

    ie 42mm objective and shorter with reduced size turrets.

    Like the OD green idea (S&B used to do that?).
     
  8. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    I like the particle beam idea... I assume you mean to use more than one particle per several seconds though.



    I believe the laser rangefinder may be a bad idea for a standard scope, any standard scope. For high tech unlimited funded ops maybe they're fine but not for me. Lasers problem include colimation problems, intervening clutter (trajectories are arcs but lasers are line-of-sight), adds bulk, is technology sensitive and generation obsolete before release.
     
  9. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    And from a marketing standpoint. You don't think it would sell? I think there is a little BUCK ROGERS in all of us! Man loves gadgets! I bet if you made a scope "The Swiss Army of scopes", with everything including the kitchen sink, there would be a market. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Here goes! [ QUOTE ]
    1. Non-rotating ocular when power is changed OR integral lense cover with non-position sensitive release mechanism. Maybe a lense cover system thats screw in like a shade, a very short shade with a lid.)

    2. Large "knobs" for elevation, windage and parallax (if parallax is an option) with caps that can be used or left at home. (Like Mark 4 type but with caps so tight transport options like scabbards and such don't screw things up.)

    3. A "zero" stop.

    4. Large tube (30mm minimum) but a small(ish) objective (40mm) so we can get a low mount.

    5. Non/low change in eye relief on power change.

    6. NON-canted reticle, quality reticle installation, not more than + or - 2 degrees or so.

    7. Finish... matte OD would be a nice color option (Wish list: a slip on/around scopesleeve of heavy plastic with embedded color).

    8. Power range(s), 2.5 x 10, 4 x 16, 6 x 24, ??

    9. Calibrated reticle(s), Mil-Dot, MOA, ?? (Wish list: Add enough dots/lines to the vertical component to allow use of the entire viewable reticle rather than "wasting" the top and bottom. Add enough lines/dots to the horizontal reticle to use it for fast movers, 10 20 30 mph (15 to 20 MILs lead).

    10. A TOUGH main tube and innards, no worry about bending or crushing the tube on rough use.

    11. Extra springs for the erection tube on all planes so absolute return to zero and repeatability.



    [/ QUOTE ] All of these were as if Dave was taking the words out of my mouth! [ QUOTE ]
    1. Internal (calibrated/accurate) graduated Cant indicator

    2. Internal (calibrated/accurate) graduated Inclinometer

    [/ QUOTE ] Wonderful Ideas as well! I would also like to see a scratch proof coating ( not scratch resistant ) on the outer lenses like the Burris Black Diamond Titanium lenses are claimed. I am a fan of the 50 mil objectives so please dont limit it to the smaller ones even though they have their advantages. I'm sure all of us would like to see it wear a price tag under 1,000 bucks also but that may be wishful thinking! [ QUOTE ]
    5. Matching spotting scope system or a cradle/clamshell housing to use a spare scope as a spotting scope. (We should be able to call "bearing" and incline "angle" to get spotter and shooter on target together.)


    [/ QUOTE ] Great suggestion and I'm sure it would work wonders if I only had a spotter with me all the time!
     
  11. brian b

    brian b Well-Known Member

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    Obviously Dave has been waiting for such an opportunity to respond to such a question for some time, the only thing I could add is to make sure for the U.S. market to make it in M.O.A. ajustments not the euro mil-rad.use simple not overdone reticles and FIRST class glass and it should be a winner unless over-priced.
    B
     
  12. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    I second what Brian B and Dave King said except for the part of having a 30mm tube with a 40mm objective only! Let's have options of that and 50mm and 56mm and for the benchrest line, and let's have a 50mm tube with an 80mm objective in the 35 to 50 power range for the super long range benchrest clan! Why not? US optics is doing it on special models and I would love to see someone else do that at an affordable price. Maybe while we're at it, how about tough external adjustments in the way of 100 plus minutes.........
     
  13. Randy Dunn

    Randy Dunn Active Member

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    Dec 30, 2004
    Sounds like a lot of great ideas, here goes.
    1. minimum of 100moa of adjustment.
    2. zero stop.
    3. large tube, 30-35.
    4. lit reticle option.
    5. offer different size knobs with various moa/clk.
    6. metric and english, multiple style reticles.
    7. 40-44 mm objective.
    8. caps that don't have to be left on.
    9. ffp
    10. rapid focus eye piece.
    11. side focus parallax/focus control.
    12. water prof lens covers, there is alot of room for improvement over what is offered at the moment.
    13. alot of eye relief, 4".
    14. non reflective finish.
    15. etched glass.
    16. non-rotating ocular.
    17. how about a scope that weighs less that 25oz.
    18. the internal level sounds great.
    19. hopefully they don't use S&B's price list.

    Although I love buttons, lights, switches, and knobs, the built in lazer range finder and particle beam stuff sounds heavy and outdated in 5 or 10 years.

    Happy hunting.
     
  14. ricka0

    ricka0 Well-Known Member

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    I sent this question to my pal Lou Boyd - an avid long range shooter who also builds telescopes for the Univ of arizona astrophysics dept. He writes:

    [ QUOTE ]
    </font> The important feature is a laser lidar which measures the windspeed over the path and corrects the reticle in real time for wind deflection in three dimensions. It could easily add in the elevation for drop at the same time.


    [/ QUOTE ] <font color="purple">