Ultimate Muzzleloader......

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by ENCORE, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Anyone shooting one and if so, are you still following the recommended pellet/bullet loading?

    I only know of one shooter who is shooting BH209 and another bullet make. I'm getting close to actually ordering one.........

    Living in a state where smokeless isn't legal, I'm looking for a longer range muzzleloader that's designed to shoot substitutes. Yes... I know some smokeless rifles will shoot substitutes but, bullet choices are extremely limited.
     
  2. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Placed the order today. McMillan thumbhole stock and SS with a muzzle break.

    [​IMG]
     

  3. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    to pricey for what it is IMO.
     
  4. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Take into consideration the amount of money a shooter spends on other top quality rifles, such as an Apex or Encore platform rifle, then try to shoot groups at 500yds like the Ultimate is capable of. The story ends right there. You can't get the range and accuracy from any other muzzleloader unless you go smokeless, which is illegal in many states, especially for the designated muzzleloader season.

    The one thing you won't find, is an Ultimate owner who isn't completely happy with the rifle. The owners that I know just tell you, "It does exactly as advertised." Its long range capability and accuracy is well documented. Also shooters are experimenting with BH209 and different bullets, other than the recommended Fury (Parker) bullets. They're having identical results as far as accuracy and range.

    The Johnston patented breech plug system has had the rights purchased by Remington, who will be coming out with its new muzzleloader sometime this summer. It won't have the WL barrel and is expected to have a Remington production barrel. Other than it being known that Remington will be coming out with a new rifle based on the Ultimate breech system, nothing else is known about it or, they won't let it out. So someone (Remington) has been paying attention to what Ultimate has been doing.

    Pricy? Right, its not cheap but neither is any quality custom rifle being made. You can spend $250 or $800 on a production muzzleloader and you end up with a 200yd rifle and if you're lucky, it'll be accurate to that range. However one thing you won't end up with, is a rifle capable of shooting little groups at 500yds. Its just another step.......
     
  5. etisll40

    etisll40 Well-Known Member

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    I really like them, but they are running white hot and I think the 275 grain bullet leaves the muzzle at 2400. I'd like to see the speed a bit higher. Smokeless is what I am looking at.
     
  6. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Smokeless guys like speed no doubt and I have nothing against smokeless or smokeless shooters but...... the fact remains that smokeless IS NOT legal in Michigan's designated muzzleloader seasons and according to the DNR and Commission reports, it won't be.

    I looked heavily into a smokeless build and talked to both Luke and Bill about them. After all the research and discussions, the exceptionally few bullet choices, wool wads, knurling bullets, then weighing in the fact that smokeless can not be used during our muzzleloader deer seasons, the choice was very evident, the Ultimate.

    I watch and follow the smokeless guys and review some of their targets. Well the speed will stretch out the distance but, most of the 100yd targets I see can be matched with a T/C Pro Hunter or Apex shooting BH209. An Ultimate, shooting "smoke belching pellets" shot less than a 3.75, 5 shot group at 500yds at the last meet. That's pretty impressive for a "smoke belcher" and without going smokeless, you won't find another muzzleloader that can match it consistently.

    That said, I believe it can be easily understood why I picked the Ultimate over a smokeless and, for $2,500 I believe I could have had one hell of a smokeless rifle. Its easily recognizable that smokeless vs substitute shooting is picking up where recurve/compound and percussion/inline debates left off. I support smokeless shooting and wish it was legal in MI but, its not going to happen any time soon, if ever.

    So when we get rid of this 4' of snow and single digit temps, I'll make the trip to pick up the new Ultimate. After a year of shooting it, I should be able to determine what the rifle will actually do, but more important what I can do with the rifle. Its a whole new adventure with a completely different type muzzleloader. I haven't mentioned it to the wife yet (don't dare) but, a new scope has to be upcoming too!
     
  7. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    a smokeless rig shooting BH209 IMO is the better way to go than being stuck with pellets.
     
  8. etisll40

    etisll40 Well-Known Member

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    For all practical hunting purposes, 500 yard kills and less are the norm really. The Ultimate is very slick. I've watched their video over and over and they shoot and re load almost as fast a magazine system. Pretty impressive for a day in day out rig. I would like to get one too, maybe that's the ticket for me too. Their system is pure quality and not really that expensive if you like custom. It is custom for sure as far as muzzleloaders go.

    Great choice.
     
  9. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Because you're not aware, some owners ARE shooting BH209 from the Ultimate rifle. I've done months of research on the differences in smokeless and the Ultimate. I'm not knocking smokeless and won't. However, even with the best built smokeless rifle, there's a limit to the BH209 you can use and what it will do. Both have pretty much been defined by all the smokeless shooters already. You'll find that those smokeless shooters are shooting smokeless powder for a reason.
    So just having a smokeless rifle and shooting BH209 from it, won't give any more significant advantage than shooting a Pro Hunter or Apex.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I don't like shooting pellets either, having shot BH209 since it became available here. I've always said that I'd never shoot pellets again but, I didn't have a custom rifle with these capabilities either. But the more you research and discuss shooting the Ultimate, when shooting 3 magnum T7 pellets the entire charge is completely burned in the first 9" of barrel at ignition. This eliminates any crud rings that shooters experience with every other muzzleloader.
     
  10. etisll40

    etisll40 Well-Known Member

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    The way the guy in the Ultimate Muzzleloader video drops the pellets in and seats the bullet is pretty slick. For muzzleloading I don't think it gets any better. Now, if you want to go to smokeless, you probably aren't going to go to 209 anyway. Check out Bad Bull muzzleloaders if you want smokeless, they seem the best at that. I like the Ultimate, and may buy one. Their organization and videos look really professional and knowledgeable. Pricing isn't that bad either. You can always upgrade some of the features even if you buy their basic package. Good stuff, pellets aren't that bad. They use a hot federal primer in a 45 lc case I believe, it helps the burn rate I'd guess. A very slick system and safe which is very important in muzzleloading.
     
  11. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    I've had many conversations with Ken Johnston and there's no doubt, they're very good people. Mine will have the muzzle brake and McMillan thumbhole stock. My assumption is that it will take me another year to put together the complete package as I'll want it. Excellent glass for the top of it isn't cheap either. I haven't decided totally on that yet, rather it will be a Leupold VX6 or Mark series.

    This whole endeavor I'm on isn't using a single fund from the savings accounts. When I started on this project, the wife told me to sell firearms that I never used or "GET A JOB!" Well so far I haven't picked up the paper and looked for a job. I don't blame her one bit, as I spend way to much money shooting the muzz. She starts to shiver every time I'm at the computer with the charge card in my hand, especially since I just dumped $500 on bullets alone.

    The Ultimate uses a .45 Winchester Magnum case with a magnum rifle primer. I'm putting in an order for 500 pieces of brass soon.
     
  12. Elite Muzzleloader

    Elite Muzzleloader Well-Known Member

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    Encore,

    Don't let anyone talk you out of this rifle. You are doing what you can for the situation you have and you are getting it done. At least you won't be shooting and testing your rifle at 50 yards and bragging about your groups at 50. You will be doing it at 500 who can say that? What I don't understand is how someone can run test on rifles and bullets at 50 yards and say "Yep this is an accurate set up!"

    Can't wait to see your groups at 500 bet you can't do it with a regular bp! Good luck!
     
  13. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. You can bet no one is going to talk me out of the Ultimate. There's no other muzzleloader that can shoot as well, clean as easy and certainly not as accurate. I don't have a 500yd range in the back yard or across the road but, there is one at the local Sportsman club. It looks like they'll be getting a new member...

    If there's anything I'm not liking about getting the rifle, is having to wait for all this snow to go down and warm up. I definitely want to take them up on shooting it first with them. A wise decision IMO. I sometimes, well mostly, have little patience waiting to shoot but, this is exciting too. Its like the anticipation of your first date....... BETTER than Christmas... LOL
     
  14. Elite Muzzleloader

    Elite Muzzleloader Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting on Luke to finish my McRem hope to see it by the end of the week. It's painful to wait I want to be shooting while it's still cold out. A friend and I are trying to find the right combo to shoot 500+ yards with out having to buy the mh or ap bullets Luke carries. If we have to then so be it thinking the BE's will work. It's nice having a guy carry everything you need though has always been great to work with.

    I'd be pushing my 4x4 to the limit to get your gun if I was in your shoes! :)