Tubb extractor

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by overbore, Jul 31, 2007.

  1. overbore

    overbore Well-Known Member

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    What North East gunsmiths have done a Tubb Sako extractor successfully, on a 700 Remmy, so that the brass moves out the port and not up only to bounce back down blocking and hitting the next cartridge??? Many thanks, Overbore
     
  2. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    Tubb Sako Extractor

    I don't know about a "Tubb Sako" but I've installed many Sako type extractors in Rem bolts. This installation is not always the "cure-all" for the ejection problem you are experiencing. I would be glad to discuss the problem with you either by PM or telephone.
    Harren's Custom Rifles
    2309 Oak Dr.
    Ijamsville, Md. 21754
    301-831-8068
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I am not in the north east by any means but I can tell you I use the Tubbs extractor and have never had a problem with them when fitted properly. I have installed well over 300 of them and every custom Rem 700 I work on gets one installed in the receiver accurizing package.

    The key is to use the right extractor for the round you are using. I believe there are 5 different sizes and yes it makes a different on some rounds if you do not use the right size.

    If your cases are falling back into the receiver I would say the problem is that the wrong extractor was used of that the extractor needs some minor releaving in a couple areas so that the case does not bind on the extract when the case is ejected.

    Properly installed, the case will clear the receiver dramatically even by working the bolt slowly, that is as long as the plunger ejector has not been modified in any way.

    Like I said, of the +300 I have installed, I have yet to have one not work well.

    That said, I have had several customer complain about the cases not ejecting properly and falling back into the receiver. In every case, the problem was tracked back to the use of a scope with very large diameter turret adjustments which the cases were hitting on.

    I have found the worst scopes for this are the ones with larger tactical turret knobs. The Zeiss scopes with their huge overhanging target turrets are the worst I have seen for this problem.

    With NF scopes, you will find light brass smears on the windage turret but in lost cases you will not have an ejection problem with this scope or any scope with similiar turrets.

    First time I had a customer with this problem I spend an hour trying to figure out what the hell was going wrong. Then finally I pulled the Zeiss scope and the cases flew clear across the work bench every time.

    IF you have a scope mounted on the rifle and it has large target turrets, check the bottom of the windage turret to see if there are brass smears. Even if there are not any, you may want to pull the scope and rule out if this is the problem or not.

    Again, A properly fitted Tubbs extractor will aggressively clear any case from a Rem 700 as long as a scope turret is not in the way.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    Tubb Sako extractor

    Kirby, that is precisely the reason that I warned that the extractor may not be the "cure-all" for his problem.
    I have to tune the ejection system on nearly every law enforcement CS rifle, that I build, in order to get the cases to clear the large knobs on the tactical scopes.
     
  5. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    I've done a couple of the Sako extractors from Brownells. I don't think they were Tubb's. I did buy the extractors that matched the case heads. No problem with ejection. One rifle had the big target knobs with screw-on covers. As I recall, you have the correct angle when the milled slot just barely nicks the base of the bottom locking lug. The original hairpin extractor is positioned directly in front of the lug and ejects almost horizontally.There is a very strong instinct to rotate the slot away from the lug, but the Sako extractor will already be about 40-45 degrees more vertical than the original extractor. Any more just makes the ejection angle worse.

    The worst part of the operation is the drilling of the spring/plunger hole. The Remington bolts are hard and tough, and I worry about snapping a drill off down in the hole. My milling machine has no feel with that small drill.

    I did do one M-16 extractor, but it's a slower job than the Sako and the hole for the cross-pin is harder to position. Extraction/ejection was good.

    I'm getting used to the new format and I like it. Tom
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Tom,

    One trick I use to drill the bolt to remove the old extractor rivit is to clamp the bolt in the fixture for milling the sako extractor and eyeball the bolt so that the original extracto rivit is top dead center. They use a small solid carbid drill bit. I use a #37.

    center the drill bit over the rivit and slowly drill. I only go roughly 15 to 20 thou deep. I do not want to drill all the way through the lip of the bolt nose, just want to take off the head of the rivit. The actual center of the rivit is much smaller in diameter.

    THen I take a small diameter punch and push the extactor rivit down until the extractor bends or snaps and they it comes right out. Leaving only a very small hole in the bolt nose sidewall.

    The rivit material is much softer then the bolt nose so in most cases, if your drill is slightly off center, it will correct itself and since your only drilling 20 thou deep at the most in most cases, the drill bit will not break if it has to run a bit to stay on the rivit.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, the hole that scares me is the .450" deep, blind hole drilled lengthwise in the bolt from the back of the new extractor slot. The one that the new extractor spring and plunger goes in to push forward on the Sako extractor. I figure that if I break a drill off in that hole, I probably won't won't get it back out, and I'll have to pay for a replacement bolt (when and if I can find one). The kits called for a #37 drill, but I used a #40. The #37 is too big. I've heard of a few cases where people said that the Sako extractor would pop out, and wondered if they were using the #37.

    Eddie PM'd me and I think that it wasn't clear for him which hole I was talking about , either.

    Both of you must have a way of drilling that hole that is not scary. I don't, but would surely like to.

    Overbore; don't want to hi-jack your thread, but it makes sense to follow up here. I hope you don't mind.

    Thanks to all, Tom
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2007
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Best way to do it is to use the bolt fixture from Brownells, a quality machine vice with true and sqaure surfaces and at least a good heavy duty drill press. I use my light mill/heavy drill press for this work. I have NEVER broken a drill bit drilling the 0.450 hole for the spring and plunger.

    One thing to keep in mind, make sure the drill is centered in the machined cut for the extractor. By that I mean if you look at the slot from the top the drill needs to be centered from side to side so that when it hits the radiused bottom of the slot, it will not walk one way or the other.

    A huge tip, get some solid carbide drill bits. They stay sharper much longer and last much longer as well. I believe I use the #37 on this hole as well as that is what is called for for the hole size which I think is 0.120". I do so many of these I don't even look at the instructions anymore.

    Another benefit of the carbide drill bit is that you can just run that sucker down in one or two passes to the entire 0.450" deep. If you back out every 50 to 100 thou you will whaller out that hole larger then it would be if you had taken only two or a single pass to drill the hole. I pour the cutting oil to the drill bit when doing this in a single pass and the carbide drills have no problem doing it in one pass.

    They cut the bolt steel like its warm butter, no comparision to a high speed steep or even cobalt drill bit. Spend a bit more and order in some solid carbides, they will be well worth your money. Also get some solid carbide end mills if you do not already have them. Makes the job much faster and easier as well.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    Kirby; my brother (JECustom) bought the fixture from Brownells and I did use it. Money well spent! I have a #40 carbide drill, but have been afraid to use it because of its brittleness. I will use it now. Just couldn't decide. I routinely use #29 and #31 carbide drills and thank goodness, haven't broken one yet.

    Thanks for jumping in, Tom
     
  10. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    Extractor

    Specweldtom, I did think you were talking about the hole at the back of the slot, which allows the pivot lug recess. I've broken more than one bit when "punching through" to the ID of the bolt. Since I started using the method I PM'd you about I haven't broken a one.
     
  11. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    Eddie, for that hole I use a 4 flute center cutting end mill (runs smoother than a 2 flute in my mill) and plunge down .145" from the floor at the back
    of the slot. Works great, don't have to break my setup, and just barely reaches the firing pin channel, so I don't have to punch through at all. very controllable. (I cut the middle of the slot first with the same 3/16" mill and set over ~.027" on each side and climb mill both sides to get a .240" wide slot). I don't particularly like climb milling, but it makes a very smooth surface for the sides of the extractor to work against.

    I am sure glad that I don't have to make a living doing this stuff, I'd starve to death; but I listen to the professionals who are making their livings at it.

    Thanks for taking the time to follow up, and thanks for the P/M.

    Tom
     
  12. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Tom , a little tip on running a climbing cut , if possible use a 4 flute carbide mill and run it at a higher rpm taking a little lighter cuts and use plenty of cutting fluid , realy a thin oil flush is the way to go but few people have the luxury , your right about it leaving a superior finish , I try to make all my final cuts with the mill climbing cuts so that the finish is better. For cutting fluid I like Moly-Dee diluted a good bit so its thin enough to run through the flushing system at higher volume.

    if you can get some Carbide cutters that are TiCN coated , you can run they about 200% faster than HSS and they stay sharp for a long time but they are pricey
     
  13. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    James; thanks for the info. You're right about the flush, would like to set up a continuous flush, but am limited to brushing it on and blowing it off for now. I have been using the "black magic" pipe threading oil for everything. Have been looking for something different, hopefully better, particularly on stainless. This stuff smokes and stinks and makes a real mess. Do you think the Moly D would work good brushed on?
    I'm slowly accumulating some carbide tools, mostly milling cutters. I have a 3/16" two flute carbide end mill that would cut the slot and could dig the hole too, but I haven't found a 4 flute center cutting carbide end mill yet.

    Overbore, I got us way off the original subject, but this has been a good thread, and answered part of your question: the Sako extractor can be made to reliably eject clear of the action.

    Thanks, Tom
     
  14. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    The Moly-Dee is the best cutting oil I have used so far and it can be brished on just as anyt other oil , it is not gonna smell good but I haven't found one that does. I started using the oil on the recomendation from Black Star barrels when I got my first barrel from them they are made from 17-4 SS that is alot harder and stronger than the typical 416 that most barrels are made from.

    Carbide is great stuff if you treat it right if you get a little froggy with the feed rate they can cause alot of damage when they break. They are also alotmore expensive especialy when you start getting the coated tool , regular Tin coating it great and a pretty big step over the uncoated and not nearly as expensive as TiCN.
    I get 99% of my cutters from MSC