Tricks to hitting dogs on the run

Discussion in 'Coyote Hunting - From 10 Yards to over 1,000 Yards' started by Iden, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Iden

    Iden Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    I am not new to coyote hunting by any means, but I still cannot get the hang of hitting them on the run. I know it is no easy task, but I was just wondering if I could hear some of ur methods you guys/gals use when you are attempting to shoot at a dog on the move. Also, if there is any sort of practice that you do for running dogs, I would love to hear about it. Thanks
     
  2. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,354
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    I have shot a lot of coyotes and hitting them on the run is always the problem, along with trying to estimate distance when you dont have time to range them. we always second guess ourselves and try to hold high and lead these dogs. and 95% of the time its a miss. Here is the trick.. DO NOT hold off the hair. you will be surprised how much your hit ratio goes up on these running and "perceived" long distance shots. When I stopped trying to blindly compensate and just held on the hair I couldnt believe how many more I hit.. sure some were in the guts or butt, but it slows them down enough you can get a kill shot in them. The old time coyote hunters will tell you the same thing.
     

  3. tcob68

    tcob68 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    I'm definitely don't claim to be an expert, but, I've shot quite a few running coyotes, 99.9% that's the only way your going to get a double or triple. First off I would recommend using a bolt gun, because you know you have to make that shot count, unlike with an AR type you won't concentrate on the shot because you know that you have several shots as fast as you can pull the trigger. Second you have to determine the distance and speed and angle of the dog, this just comes with practice. I think one of the most important parts is follow thru, squeezing the trigger while the rifle is still swinging, if you stop you will shoot behind them almost every time. You can tell alot about how fast a coyote is running by watching their bodies, it will tell you alot. I usually don't attempt moving shots if it requires hold over, to much to compute in very short time. I just put the dot where I usually shoot'em and then swing the dot out in front while keeping the horizontal part of the reticle on their body, when I'm comfortable with the placement I squeeze the trigger without stopping the swing. The cross hair with dot helped me with running shots alot. I hope this helps and good luck.
     
  4. Iden

    Iden Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Thanks for all the advice. That is exactly my problem. Every time I get the chance to take a running shot I completely lose all concept of reality, it seems, I start leading and holding over, none of which I should do. Is there any thing u guys do to drill ur method into ur head. Does anybody know of a way to practice for this type of scenario??
     
  5. tcob68

    tcob68 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Just find cooperative coyotes is how I practiced. I f you do call in multiple coyotes be sure and remember the route they came in on and try to shoot the farthest one away first, the the closest one will usually take the same path out that they came in on, that way you will have an idea where you need to have your rifle pointing after the first shot. Like Tikkamike said, hold on hair and swing thru your shot to start and don't over think the situation. Practicing on a moving target would almost have to involve two people and that could get dangerous. Just keep trying and you will get the hang of it.
     
  6. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,354
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009

    It is very hard to convince yourself that you shouldnt lead or hold over so just do your best to pound it through your head, as far as practice...I guess shoot more coyotes!
     
  7. Bowhunter57

    Bowhunter57 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    185
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Tikkamike,
    You have 2 correct thoughts here. Over compensating for distance (holding too high) is one that a lot of shooters make. It's easy to not take confidence in the weapon in your hand and aim too high. :rolleyes:

    Your correct second thought is to not hold off of the fur, on a running animal. This also has to do with a lack of confidence in the weapon's ability.

    I had a coyote at 80ish yards and he just wouldn't commit to the motion decoy. At one point he finally decided against the idea and started trotting off. I whistled, he stopped, I shot and missed...my fault. He kicked the jets on and I led him about 5' and touched off a shot...and another...and another, etc. Then I noticed the dirt/bullet skip well ahead of him. He was really moving on, at a falling away angle, so I put the red dot holo sight on his chest and touched one off (the 9th round). Down he went, end over end, at 170+ yards. I don't lead coyotes with a rifle, any more. :cool:

    Bowhunter57
     
  8. c_bass16

    c_bass16 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    457
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    We drop close to 100 dogs a year, a good majority on video and somewhere between 10-20 are runners. Not holding off the hair completely depends on cartridge, caliber, distance, dog and bullet speed and angle. I'd have to say that in the last season, EVERY runner I hit (maybe only 3) was lead well off the fur.
    My partner is noticeably better at runners, but he shoots daily and studies lead shots based on average running speeds.

    The easy answer...it's just like shooting game birds. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

    The more detailed answer is to just do the math and run the ballistics for movers.

    Coyotes can crack 40 mph, but a nice average in "get the heck out of here" mode is between 30-35 mph depending on weather, conditions, terrain, age, etc etc etc.

    My .243WSSM sending 105VLDs at 3000fps will have to lead in the neighborhood of 60-65 inches to score a hit at only 100 yds if the dog is moving full value. Hold on hair and you'll miss behind him.
    The nice thing is that distance doesn't play as much of a factor because the bullet is covering it so fast. Between 100-200, the lead doesnt change by more than 3-4"...but change the angle too, and the coyotes speed essentially drops (because it's not full value) and then the hold greatly reduced.

    My general rules to follow are...(100yds or beyond, additional foot at 500 yds)
    2-3' feet out front (1/2 coyote length lead for full value runners.)
    1-2' feet out front (hold on nose for a brisk trot or quartering runners)
    Leading shoulder hair for quartering trots.
     
  9. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,040
    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    I think you should use the sustained lead method . The USA call it " tracking " .
    You start the swing behind the coyote and match it's speed and then pull ahead the amount of lead you need and squeeze off . This should all happen in one smooth sustained swing. The point where you squeeze off the shot can vary from on the beast to way in front.
    The lead needed is a function of the range and speed of the target the speed of the bullet and the speed of your trigger release. I would be inclined to use a scope that can set any elevation required on the scope turret straight up so no hold over while swinging is required as this tends to divide your concentration on the correct lead .
    A slow poke on the trigger will need more lead than a quick snap shooter.
    So noone can tell you exactly what lead you will need precisely .
    The best that we can do is generalise .
    Running targets are an instinctive thing and you need to have a mind picture concept of the leads you need in certain situations as outlined by c_bass16.
    You can calculate the rough leads you need for certain ranges ,angles and target speeds using a ballistic program . Then you have to practise . After a while you get a kind of muscle memory swing and mind picture of the lead required coming together at the one time in the one smooth motion and bang the coyote hits the dust , it's a kind of zen moment where you did it but after , you are not quite sure how but you can do it over and over .
    In my case I have never seen a coyote but that matters not , any moving game will give the same type of practise .
     
  10. SLOAN

    SLOAN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    128
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    EARS yup ears,Up here the yote is running up or down the hill. Hold on the ears an send it.Very few shot s past a hundred. about 50% SL0ANgun)
     
  11. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,708
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    I have done most of my coyote hunting in Alberta farm country that has rolling, cut fields and you don't get much time for calculation or thought before he disappears over a hill. Shots can be from 50 yards to 300 yards. Speeds, distances, and angles vary with every shot. I use a Mildot scope that is set a half the power of the scope which gives about 7"/mil at 100 yards and about 6-7 power. This gives greater lead values than using the dots at the standard full power setting. I swing through, not stopping the rifle. The range of holds become instinctive but the Mildots give an on hair hold that compensate for leads at increasing distances. Which Mildot used on the horizontal scale is quickly determined by the dogs speed and angle. For example, right angle fast running dog gets the 5th Mildot, a slow running away at a slight angle gets 1 Mildot. The brain quickly learns everything in between with practice. I don't worry about the range for lead variation because it self compensates using the Mildot scaling very well. For bullet trajectory at 300 yards, I just hold on the top of the shoulder. it works with all my rifles with around 2900-3100 FPS.
     
  12. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,840
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    I swing through them and touch it of as the cross hair passes of the shoulder if they are running but not smoking, if they are smoking I shoot when it passes their nose. Most of our shots are moving so you get good and hitting them on the move, if you do get one to stand it's only seconds and they blow out.
     
  13. D.ID

    D.ID Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    838
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Me and my brother use to go out and walk threw the desert draws shooting at running jack rabbits for practice. Target rich environment, similar sized or smaller target moving at least as fast. We both got really good at it after a while.
     
  14. daniel brothers

    daniel brothers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    157
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    some say ...on the hair...some say ... off the hair.... Hmmm....

    are there any tricks for practicing ... if you don't have jackrabbits...?

    And where is a program chart that will show bullet leads vs speeding targets...

    is there one out there... ?


    All the dogs I've shot were standing still.... but have missed a couple running...

    and I need to get a handle on this because I have plans for a Dakota coyote

    hunt for a few weeks early this fall.

    Thanks...Dan