To neck size or full length size???

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by meatyrem, Feb 8, 2011.

  1. meatyrem

    meatyrem Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering the big difference between the two. I know the FLS sizes the whole case and the neck sizer sizes the neck only. For using ammo for hunting and in the same rifle that it was fired in, would neck sizing fit the bill or would the full length sizer? I'm reading that for hunting you want to FLS for ease of use and not to neck size, but what I'm hearing folks do is neck size for better accuracy and more case life and if that ammo is going to be loaded in that very same rifle. I'm thinking that I am wanting to neck size.

    Any thoughts or experience on this matter would be appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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  3. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    You can partial NS, with an occasional shoulder bump, provided your pressures are reasonable(below SAAMI max).
     
  4. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "I'm thinking that I am wanting to neck size."

    I'm thinking you don't. Much of what you read, 'specially on the web, is half baked nonsense and the perceived worth of neck sizing is near the top of the BS list.

    Sounds like you are a hunter, probably shooting an "off the shelf" factory rifle? If so, NS will do nothing automatic for your accuracy OR case life, but it can cause chanbering problems; fergit it.
     
  5. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    This is a good example of "BS", I neck size for most of my rifles, (Not all, such as those loaded for rapid fire or mass produced on dillon press)bench/varmint/deer/elk/bear, etc. and don't have any problems with chambering. The increase in accuracy and not having to trim as much are 2 of the benefits I like.
    Some of the people who don't like it have had problems doing it right, and therefore, "it don't work" attitude.
    I would suggest you try to find a shooter who does it, hopefully in your cal. and load some of your own ammo and test it.
     
  6. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "This is a good example of "BS", I neck size for most of my rifles,"

    Meatyrem clearly stated he's loading for a big game hunting rifle. Neither his accuracy, need to case trim or his case life is likely to improve any useful amount due to neck sizing, if any at all. Even if it did, the real differences would be tiny and trivial at best. That's likely to be true for you as well.

    What you do or what I do is no "proof" of the typical value of anything. Our needs and our rifles are probably unlike what Meatyrem uses and I was addressing HIS needs, not yours. What you or I may do is NOT by that fact what he needs to do and suggesting he does is half-educated web "instant expert" BS.
     
  7. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    I DID find accuracy to improve, a little, and trimming is time consuming and chambering is not a problem, but why reload at all if you don't want more ?
    and, if you read his post, he addressed those very concerns.
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I'm missing where he stated anything about 'big game hunting', or use of any particular cartridge. It may also be that FL sizing would provide little benefit for him.
    I think he COULD follow his notion to try NS/bumping -before conceding to FL sizing. It could be easier, and/or better for him, or a waste of a little time.

    I never FL size anything myself, and this has not caused issues for me. But then my cartridges are well designed and my max pressure is based on measured case growth at the webs(managed).
    I rarely have to trim beyond initial preps, and my loaded runout is very low. So is my ES typically, as I partial NS one cal length as a standard with one thou sprungback for tension on every cartridge.

    Personally, I see FL sizing as merely another shortcut weakly rationalized.
     
  9. apexmtnman

    apexmtnman Well-Known Member

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    Here's a quote from David Tubb @ 6mmbr.

    "I use moly-coated bullets exclusively, so the loads listed need to be reduced 1-1/2 grains if an uncoated bullet is substituted. All of my long range loads are seated long and are pushed back into the case upon the closing of the T2K bolt. Likewise, all of my long range loads are full-length resized each and every time (approximately .003 inches shoulder set back). I use the Superior Shooting Systems Custom 6XC die set (see below). I used the .268 bushing in the sizing die with the expander plug (for long range only; I use a smaller bushing for across the course rounds)."

    If neck sizing only is always more accurate don't you think he and all the guys like him would be neck sizing also?
    I full length resize all my brass but only set the shoulder back enough so that they chamber good, and I don't have to trim all that often.
     
  10. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "I'm missing where he stated anything about 'big game hunting' , or use of any particular cartridge."

    You are correct, I read more into his post than was written. He only said hunting and I presumed "big" but he may mean "little" game hunting like varminting. Not likely, but...maybe. I didn't reference any particular cartridge either but I bet he's not using a .222 for his hunting, what do you bet? :rolleyes:

    Regardless, the supposed "advantages" of neck sizing for common hunting ammo is virtually zilch. And that's true for quite a bit of target shooting ammo as well, but we have to get passed popular "common knowledge" to appreciate that. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  11. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    Full length size with properly set up dies. Don't look back.

    Steve
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    All I can suggest is that 'popular' common knowledge, is quieter than 'unpopular' common knowledge.. Just a review and comparison of the constant sizing issues posed at this forum should lead you to my perspective.
    FL sizing -without a custom fit die, is a pooch poke for many reloaders. But you don't here alot of issues from those who manage their sizing to just that needed. And given the shear number of bushing neck dies available today, I'm thinking the numbers for NS only are substantial.
    Yet, they are oh so quiet and apparently handling the rocket science of sizing without issues..

    Also,
    While I like D.Tubb(read his books, own a T2K), I can tell you from direct experience that his 6XC brass, and especially his 6XC sizing die -SUCK COMPLETELY...
    I will not delude myself, or conceal this.
    There is no need to bypass reason, or to assume anything, based soely on competitor habits.
    This will just bog you down.
    Better to think independently, and keep moving ever toward better.
     
  13. cowboy

    cowboy Well-Known Member

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    The big difference between the two is if you do Full Length size your ammo is good to go in any rifle where as neck sizing is best left to the chamber it was originally fired in. I've seen more variations of using a FLS die than you can count on one hand. You can neck size with your FL die - try it and see if you show any difference on paper. It's been mentioned that they FLS and "Ownly bump the shoulder back .003". I guess I fully agree with this but I also think that it is not truly FL resizing.
    Just out of curiosity - what caliber/calibers are you referring to. I have a different opinion on my Ackley calibers for reloading versus a standard cartridge versus a magnum belted cartridge. All are used for hunting but I keep accuracy on the top of my wish list.
     
  14. meatyrem

    meatyrem Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, I appreciate all the input you are giving.

    To try and clear some issues up here:
    22-250 varmint rifle.
    Two 280Rems for biggame
    7rum for bigger game
    Two 300Rums for even bigger game

    All of which are bolt guns. All are remmys.

    Sounds like the majority of you out there are fls. And only a few are ns. Just looking at weighing my options. I was looking at ns for case life and top accuracy, from what I have read, anyway. And it does seem logical to me that only the neck be sized anfter initial forming. But; it sounds like fls may be in order to skip a chambering issue for reliable chambering. And at the same time I also could use the fls to just bump the shoulder back. I still am not sure at this piont.