To Float or not to Float......

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by DoubleGobble00, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. DoubleGobble00

    DoubleGobble00 Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking about floating the barrel of my 280 Ruger MKII and my 7mm08 Rem 700 CDL. Both guns have pressure points near the end of the forearm.

    I am worried that if I take the action out of the stock to float the barrel I might not tighten the action back to factory specs or something... I wasn't wanting to bed the action or anything since I know very little about that.

    I am just wondering if I can mess anything up by taking the stock off, free floating the barrel, then putting the stock back on??? Thanks,

    DoubleG
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    If they are bouth shooting well I would'nt mess with them!!

    If they are not shooting then go ahead and float them, You can
    allways add tip pressure later.

    As to tightening the action screws if it is not pillar bedded (floor metal
    through wood or composit to action) then torque screws to 35 or 40
    inch/pounds.

    If the make up is metal to metal (floor metal to pillars to action then
    torque to 65 inch/lbs.

    To find out if they are floated at all slip a new dollar bill under the barrel
    just behind the pressure point and move it back and forth to find if and
    where it is touching.

    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. DoubleGobble00

    DoubleGobble00 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information. I might give it a shot. I ran a dollar through them the other day and both are touching about 1 inch below the end of the forearm. They shoot pretty good (1 to 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards) but just wanted to see if I could make them better. Also give me something to piddle with.. lol

    DoubleG
     
  4. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    JEs advise is sound, I'll offer a couple of thoughts though.
    I'd start with the Reminton and see how it goes.
    If that Ruger is shooting consistant 1" groups I'd hunt with as is. Messing with the bedding and screws on a Ruger may help but you run a higher risk of it going the other dirrection :eek:
    If you take the ruger apart take note on how tight each screw is starting with the middle screw, then the back and finaly the front screw. Tighten them in reverse order starting with the front=then back and then the middle screw being carefull not to over tighten it!
    For a sporter barrel with plastic stocks(or wood for that matter) I prefer to fold a dallar a few times ...especialy if it gets shot off of bipods
    Good luck piddling
     
  5. kiwiwildcat

    kiwiwildcat Member

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    I have a Remington 700 LSS Mountain Rifle in .280 Remington, with the skinny Mountain Rifle profile barrel. The laminated stock has a pressure point bearing on the barrel about 1/2 an inch from the end of the fore end. My rifle is not bedded, the only modification I made was to lighten the trigger.

    So, how does it shoot - extremely well. That is with GS Custom projectiles, 120 grains weight. I was at the range the other week, I put 15 rounds down the barrel in quick succession, with different weight powder charges, but the last 4 were between 1/2 and 1 inch. After 15 rounds the barrel was literally too hot too touch. However, trying that with Corelokts after 4 rounds the groups started to really open up, and had to wait for the barrel to cool.

    There is no way that I'm going to bed my rifle - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


    If you are worried about ensuring that you have the same tension on your king screws when you put your rifle back together, you could buy a torque driver and follow G E Customs post on this page.

    Regards,

    Michael.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2008
  6. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Word of warning on the Ruger, if you take out the lump in the forearm, thinking the barrel will float, your in for a big suprise. What happens is the whole barreled action will fit in deeper and the barrel will then contact more of the wood channel. You almost have to at least glass bed the reciever with tape wrapped around the barrel where the pressure bedding lump used to be. This will then hold the barrel off the wood during and after everything sets up.
    Get your tape at least 1/8 inch thick. I heard some home smith guys put a shim under the front of the reciever to hold it up. I never tried it but seems it would be a pain in the rear over time.

    The rugers I have floated barrels on responded very well with handloads developed after the work was completed.
     
  7. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    man just talking about bedding a Ruger makes me want to cuss , but Cowboy is right and thats true for alot of guns from the factroy , the action inlet is way to deep , I always prefer to bed tha action before I go to removing anything from the barrel channel.

    Take them down to "eddybo's" and make him bed them , hes watched
    Mr. Don enough to give it a go , but make sure the Rem goes first.
     
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    ah, the wonderful art of piddling.:D

    That gets me in more trouble than anything I do.:eek: Piddling is as addictive as LRH.

    It's kind of like painting one room in the house. That ends up being just a start. Pretty soon you're doing the siding.:D

    What JE said is good. I fold the dollar bill at least 3 times. Just personal preference.
     
  9. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    doublegobble00,
    Take a rasp and file both of those fore end lumps back to flush,why the factories still do this fore end pressure rubbish is beyond me!
    There is no other factory 'hoo hah' that is so detrimental to accuracy that hasn't been discovered yet,how any pressure on a barrel is going to help with accuracy is a joke!
    If it is such a good thing,why do their top line models come 'free floating' and 'aluminium bedding', 'pillar bedding' and 'glass bedding'.
    Removing your stocks to remove these lumps of wood will not be detrimental to your rifles accuracy in any way.If anything,it will help make it better.
    When you do get the stocks off,DO NOT re tighten your action screws the same as the factory did.
    Tighten the front bolt first,with an allen wrench,NOT a 'T' handle wrench,then the rear bolt,then the middle trigger guard bolt,this bolt only needs to be firm,to stop the magazine well from moving(on the Ruger only).
    The post about the barrel not floating after you remove the lump,and the action going deeper into the stock is a semi truth,you need to remove material all along the barrel channel for it to work correctly,but leave some just in front of the action/barrel juncture.
    The action is already touching the stock,if it wasn't,you would never keep your action bolts tight,they would loosen on each shot,that's how screw/bolts work,they have to be bearing on something when tightened,ask any gunsmith.
    You can get away with pillar bedding these rifles,without the need to glass bed,because they already have good bedding in their stocks!
    I think you need to speak to a qualified gunsmith to give you the correct info on how to go about this!
    Good luck
    MagnumManiac
    gun)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2008
  10. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    #1) If the barrel is touching the forend tips as its supposed to from the factory and the action screws are tight then their is stress on the action at the barrel action joint , this tension will be enough to keep the screws from backing out assuming that their is enough torque on them(15-60in lbs) . It is completely possible to have and keep the action screws tight and not have the action be touching the stock , and in this case if you remove the forend pressure points then barrel will "sink" further into the stock untill the action make contact. Now the only way to preven this from happening is to FIRST glass bed the action and then remove the forend pressure points this way the action will be the only thing making contact.
    #2) Not all guns shoot better with a free floated barrel , some guns typicaly those with thinner barrel liketo have some pressure on the barrel and it can vary from just barely making contact to 20lbs !! though its not nearly as common to see very accurate guns with pressure point their are some and they are generaly those whos barrels haven't been properly stress relieved.
    #3) The proper way to tighten the action screws is neight with a long allen wrench or a T handle wrench ,the proper way its to use an inch pound torque wrench , on wood stocks tighten the front action screw to 15lbs then the rear , then rested the wrench and torque the front to 35lbs then the rear and last useing a little bit of fingernail polish on the threads you tighten the front trigger guard screw just tight enough to keep the guard from rattling.

    MagnumManiac , not sure how many guns you have built or had built nor do I know how many guns "top line" guns you have delt with but I can say from my personal experiance that some "top line" guns arn't bedded worth a damn if they are and some with bedding blocks arn't glass bedded and ALOT of these semi custom guns that use McMillan stock arn't bedded at all , for instance a $4000+ Robar custom I reciently had to bed because the inletting from McMillan is "supposed" to be perfect WRONG , the gun all the sudden started patterning instead of grouping , a proper bedding job fixed it. Just a heads up , the stock that come with the aluminum bedding block generaly gain a little bit when they are properly gass bedded. And as for having a qualified gunsmith give some imput about this trouble , well more than a couple already have in this thread.

    DG , hows that Sako treating you?
     
  11. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    James, I cant really answer for DG....but from the pic of the last group he shot with it, I would say its treatin him pretty good. I think it was a little .2 at 100 yards. He has been popping my metal target pretty regular. I donr got him hooked on this stuff I am thinking:)

    I forgot to mention that he won first at 600 yard f-class at palo alto last weekend shooting my 6x47....I squeaked out a second with the other.

    BTW how is your 6x47 coming along? Get it ready and meet me at independence and I will give you a hand breaking it in and working up a load. I dont know much but I can push patches with the best of them.
     
  12. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    You diden't make shoot the worn out one did you?

    eddybo , I've had the flu this past week and between that and work I ain't done much , I need to get it finished though I can't wait to shoot it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  13. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    Hey dont go pickin on my worn out gun....it still kicks butt. We took turns shooting the worn out gun, I shot it 44 rounds and he shot it 22. Since I already have enough rounds loaded for it "Ol Green" is going to this sundays 600-1000 match.
     
  14. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    you should start a thread about this round and its barrel life , maybe post up all the equiptment used and load data , I know that it gona baout twice as far as I expected it to , thats a huge testiment to this little case.