tikka owners please help with advice...

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by fieldsj66, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. fieldsj66

    fieldsj66 Active Member

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    Aug 15, 2011
    new tikka t3 hunter coming.

    want as low as possible mounting of my leupold 4.5x14x40LR

    so i'm looking at WARNE 14TM mounts.

    i originally was looking for crosslocks with bases + rings in "low"

    if i buy these warne "combo" deals in "medium" will that be enough to clear the 40 scope bell plus my butler creek flip up caps?

    what's the recommendations? obtw i don't like the dnz
     

  2. elkoholic72

    elkoholic72 Well-Known Member

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    Talley lightweights one piece in low. Wife has same setup on her 7mm-08 in t3 and I have same setup on my backpack rifle which is t3 in 300wwsm. Both are luepold 30mm tubes. The 40mm bell takes a low and a 50mm bell takes a med on the talleys. Both scopes have been mounted since 2006 and handled hard in the mountains on 4wheelers and horses without any movement.
    Ben
     

  3. Alaska_Seth

    Alaska_Seth Well-Known Member

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    There are only 3 scope mount systems to use with Tikka, all 3 use Tikka's integral mount.

    To not use Tikka's integral mount is stupid.

    -- First off, it's 80% weaker to just use the screw on type mount system.

    -- Second if you use a Tikka Optilock or Sako TRG mount there is no ring marring.

    The three companies are:

    www.sako.fi Optilock make sure you get the right one for a Tikka rifle. Sako TRG saddle mounts can be used if you grind (or machine, file) the lug off.

    www.spurh.com Nice 2 ring saddle mount system with a scope level.

    The third choice is a guy on Ebay from Canada that makes a TRG and Tikka 3 ring saddle mount. It is similar to the Sako TRG saddle mount, but not 100%. Do a search on Ebay for Tikka mounts.

    If will admit one thing. If your not going to use an integral and you decide to put a 1913 rail on your rifle you must epoxy it down. Not for the trips to the back yard to kill zombies, but for wen your really need it. 400 miles from home and you drop your rifle while taking a leak next to a tree. Then a minuite or two later will walk out that monster bull zombie or whatever it was your were hunting.
     
  4. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    Stupid? 80% weaker? You are wrong on Both accounts. I prefer use of the intrigal mount also but its not stupid not to. Also near makes an awesome mount for tikka. I have heard good things about the egw bases. I think the talleys might be great in this situation.
     
  5. Alaska_Seth

    Alaska_Seth Well-Known Member

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    Let's make sure we are all on the same page. My personal gun experience is an amalgamated mesh of 17 years as a Navy Armorer, and a lifetime as a gun nut.

    When I say ring mount I am referring to a system like the Optilocks wherein the ring/base utilizes the rifles action grooves to lock down. Similar to the 1913 rail and Weaver system on AR15s or on the New Surgeon. As in small little 6x40 or 8x40 screws are not holding down your scope. I beleive Burris, Leupold, and Warne all make Sako/Tikka ring mounts.

    When I say saddle mount I am referring to a 2 or 3 ring ONE PIECE mount that does the same as above. Like the TRG and Spuhr mount system.

    A rings and bases bolt on system, LIKE THE TALLEY is weaker. Epoxying on the bases helps, but no amount of epoxy will match the strength of a properly put together saddle mount on a integral base receiver.

    Please do the math, 3 or 4 6x40 screws or less than .20 of retention versus almost 1.0 to 5.0 inches of combined retention with saddle mount or ring mount.

    If you epoxy the 1913 rail down, you increase strength but you will never have the strength provided by a saddle mount. A quality saddle mount utilizing the integral receiver could be as much as 2000% percent stronger than the 4 screws are.

    And regardless of how much of a hold a pair of Ultralight Talleys have on the scope, they have only 4 6x40 screws worth of hold on the action.
     
  6. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying the optilock or something similar isn't better than something like a tally. But It doesnt mean Its a.bad option or "stupid". I have used talleys on everything from tikkas to a 700 in 375 rum. They held up just fine under the extreme abuse. You would have to seriously abuse a tally for.it to fail like probably break a screw... which is possible anything can break. But to call the idea stupid is a little redicilous. I don't actually have any tally's in use right now because I am using rails for their versatility. But they are bolted on With 6x24 screws and I don't feet they are weak in any way.
    You can tell me to do but math but really all you are doing is throwing out arbitrary numbers to.try And prove a point.
    Let me ask you a question. What kind of screw is holding together these "saddle rings"??? They are pretty similar to a 6 or 8x 24... hey are all just held together with tiny screws. Just in different ways And at different angles. What it comes down to is surface area And shear strength of a given screw..
     
  7. Alaska_Seth

    Alaska_Seth Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    It doesn't matter how tough a Talley is, if the screw fails the mount is disconnected from you rifle. This is the same with any rifle. However the screw on a Talley is the bearing surface. That's it nothing else, unless you epoxy your mount down.

    It is basic physics. A small skinny piece of metal is weaker than a big fat piece of metal.

    Saddle mounts and Ring mounts are held on to the integral bases of a rifle by the pinching pressure on the undercut of the integral base. The bolts pinch down on the integral undercuts. So it is the undercut that has the bearing surface on it.

    Bolt on mounts like Talleys and Dog nuts or whatever they are called. Utilize 3 or 4 6x40 screws (or 8x40 screws if you re cut them to a bigger size). The screw is the only bearing surface connected to the rifle unless you epoxy them down.

    Even on a rifle like a M700 Remington you can have a fairly strong mount by using a bridge system like a Warne, Badger, or PG&W 1913 rail and using both epoxy and the little 6x40 screws on the rail, because the expoxy is the bearing surface not the little 6x40 screws.

    The scope mount system will never be as strong as a rifle action like the Surgeon with integral 1913 rails, the Badger 2008 with 1913 rails, or even a Ruger with integral mounts. Because a bolt on system is not integral.
     
  8. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    Are there not screws on your "saddle rings" that hold them to the intrigal rail? Your set up is only as strong as the sheer strength of those screws.
     
  9. Nomad

    Nomad Banned

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    Years back called Warne about a 20min 1913 rail for my Tikka we talked a while
    and came up with one that was flat on the base would work
    if you put new screw holes in the rear. Went over to a local gunsmith and showed
    him what I had well at days end the 20min rail was mounted as a two piece rail
    that I shimmed so there was about 7min to bottom the scope and back to a quick zero
    We put number 8/ 32 or 40 screws which we had to tap over the reciever and
    just in front of the bolt......
    Very greatful to Warne for all the time they spent helping get this project going......
     
  10. Alaska_Seth

    Alaska_Seth Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, the screws that pinch the Saddle Mount or Ring mount down to the integral ring are not the bearing surface. Yes their shear strength is important, but they are easily 10 times as big as the screws you would use to bolt Talleys down to the top of the receiver.

    The most important part of the equation is that the those pinch bolts do not bear the shearing force themselves, they have the entire ring mount pad system to bear the shearing forces.

    The shearing forces on a traditional bolt in system like the Talley are all on the screw, and the screw is tiny.

    Look go down to Riverton or Cody to Rocky Mountain Sports and take a look at an integral mount on a Sako TRG or Tikka, and compare the bearing/shearing surfaces to that little 6x40 screw.

    Not everyone likes big clunky mounts, if you don't that's totally fine. Just don't expect a 6x40 screw to be as strong as something that has locking abuttments, recesses, and integral mounts that bear the shearing forces.

    My personal opinion on mounts has changed over the years. I used to be in love with Control Mounts, then I was a EAW guy, then I liked vertical split Talleys and Warnes, then I wanted the ring and base to be the all one unit like the Talley Ultralights, and now after 17 years of beating up military rifles I can see the beauty of integral mounts and more importantly saddle mount systems.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I'll be the first to admit that. And big saddle mounts wouldn't win over someone like Jack O'Connor or Craig Boddington. But they are the strongest mount system we currently have.

    Another way to make your favorite Talley mount stronger is to cut a slice of steel between the ring holes on the receiver and another between the ring holes on the bottom of the mount. Then utilizing Bisonite or some other steel filled epoxy fill that area. Essentially you are building a recoil abuttment for the rings. It doesn't have to be very thick or deep, just big enough for some epoxy to fill in the space. You can use a cutting disk on a dremel. Of course after it dries you will need to lap your rings, as this might warp the mount a bit if you didn't apply epoxy evenly.
     
  11. Boom

    Boom Well-Known Member

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    I just finished a setup on a T-3 Lite and posted results, on this site, under:

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/tikka-help-76748/

    I understand you don't want the DeadNutz but they do seem to work well. Otherwise, call EGW as I know their products are outstandind and they have what you need for Tikkas.

    One edit: my scope was a 6.5-20x40 and I used the low set from Deadnutz, plenty of room for Butler Creeks's.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  12. fieldsj66

    fieldsj66 Active Member

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    Aug 15, 2011
    thanks guys for all the interesting reading.:)

    lots more knowledgeable people around here than i am.

    i went with the warne maxima in medium per a recommendation from the warne folks. could probably have used the low but with the little extra of the flip ups it came out okay.

    the mounting of those ringmounts was not at all hard like some people said.

    now to get her squared up. read a thread where the guy recommended making a target with an inverted T. dead on the intersection and then click the scope up to see if it tracks true. any ideas on this??