This & That....A Layman's Long Range Rifle?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Bob Metcalf, Feb 6, 2002.

  1. Bob Metcalf

    Bob Metcalf Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Hey guys, Here is my situation. 4 kids and
    paying for there education precludes me now
    of buying into a custom L/R bench rifle.

    But I am looking into a "What is the best setup" for long range hunting with ranges of between 700 & 1,000 yards. I'm looking into a factory rifle with some minor tuneups to the rifle.

    I live out west and hunt Wa, Or, & Az, coues (cows) deer to Wapiti. I want a rifle I can
    carry (somewhat.) I'm 6'1 and 200# and in
    pretty good shape and don't mind packing,
    when I have to.

    I have a Leupold 8.5x25x50 Target scope with
    fine crosshairs with QD rings and mounts for
    a Rem 700 Varmit. This can be changed of course.

    What Rifle, Cartridge, and bullet recomindations would you have? and any other
    ideas for this project.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob- I'll second Boyd's comments. I have a 338 Ultra in a Remington Sendero and it is an outstanding rifle for the money spent. It looks like you have "the scope" so you're already ahead. The 338 Ultra does well with the 300 MK and the 250 gameking. The only drawback to it would be the recoil. It's pretty stiff for target shooting without a brake installed. The 300 Ultra maybe a better choice using either the 220 or 240 MK's.

    Good luck.
     

  3. No Fear in Accuracy

    No Fear in Accuracy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob Metcalf

    If you don't mind me asking you about the fine crosshair, I would like to know how well do you see the fine crosshair at long range, sunrise/sunset conditions and dark colour trees at long range?
    I'm planning to purchase Leupold 6.5x20x50 with a fine crosshair. If it is a bad choice, then I'll go for Leupold dot. Email me if you wish.

    I'd start with 7mm RUM and up. I think 300 RUM would be a fine choice for deer and elk up to 1000 yards. Also need good bedding for more accuracy. Unsure about the factory barrel. It might be good or maybe not.
    -DG
     
  4. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,071
    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Me? 300 Tomahawk.I have a 6.5 to 20 Nikon with the fine x-hair.The only problem I've had is on real sunny day's.And only if the sun was right in my face.As for the factory barrel.All the Sendero's I've seen shot very well.
     
  5. Bob Metcalf

    Bob Metcalf Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Hello Me?

    I really like the Leopold under all conditions. I don't have a problem seeing
    anything with the fine's at any time of
    day. I did own a dot in a 6x20 but did not
    like it, so I went back to the fine crosshair.
     
  6. Bob Metcalf

    Bob Metcalf Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Thank's for the respones everybody.

    I do have another question though.

    I did own a 700 in 300 win mag with a 26"
    tube. I long throated it and seated the
    bullets to kiss the lands I was using 180
    NBTs and 80 grains of 7828. I was getting
    just a hair over 3,300 with this load.
    With 220 NPs I could get 2,950. This was
    with NO signs of pressure. WHY? I am using
    20 grains less powder to get near the same
    velocity of a 300 RUM. Why go to the RUM
    again when I can do this?
     
  7. longrangehunter

    longrangehunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    110
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2002
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    DG, I have used a fine crosshair for coyote hunting in many different conditions and I have to say you will run into times when you can't see well enough to shoot accurately. Even well befoe the end of legal hunting hours and at close range. In some conditions you won't be able to see even a heavy duplex. Often you can see the crosshair until you put it on the animal - then NOTHING. Dark on Dark just doesn't work. Of course, there are a lot of different things you can do to light up the crosshairs, like glow sticks, but these tricks don't always work out as planned. I'm not saying don't go with a fine cross hair if you need it, but have a back up plan just in case.

    [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: longrangehunter ]
     
  8. PrimeTime

    PrimeTime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    A 300 Ultra mag without a brake would kick like a mule with a thorn in his side. A friend of mine broke out his teeth with a 10 pound ultra mag. I guess there are burly guys that say they can handle it but it's certainly not for me. For up to a thousand yards it really doesn't take much. The ultra mag would obviously do a good job but I like a gun I can shoot all the time, even off the bench and really get used to what it can do.
    As you previously stated, a 300 win mag would be more than ample and burn less powder. For deer size game, a 7mm Rem mag would be fine.
    Heck, Howard Wolf (the noted 1,000 yd gunsmith) recently told me that for years, he long range hunted deer with a 25-06 and made many one shot kills up to 700 yards. Many people adhere to the theory that you need around 1,000 foot pounds of energy to make clean kills. Check out some ballistic programs and you will see that it doesn't take much to meet that criteria. I shoot a 280AI and punch holes through our steel gong at 1,000 yards.
    The Remington Sendero is definitely the best bang for the buck in a factory rifle as has already been pointed out. Your scope is about the best available. Just decide which caliber you want and go for it. Any of the magnums from 7mm and up would be fine.
     
  9. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    351
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob Metcalf,
    I can't say why your 300 Win Mag got those velocities in a 26" barrel. Even with throating it out, those are amazing velocities for a 300 Winny. But I would dare say you'll never find another one that will give the same velocities or even within 150fps of those.
    I've shot a lot of 300's and never even came close to those velocities. So I guess the bottom line is you had an exception to the rule with a very fast barrel. To get those velocities consistantly and do it in a safe manner, in all hunting conditions, your going to need a 300 Weatherby and above for case capacity.

    Just my thoughts,
    Steve
     
  10. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,071
    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob.Go out and get yourself a Sendero in 300 Ultra Mag.Load some 220gr MatchKing's at about 3000fps.And go hunting.Put a Leupold Long range scope base on it with your 8.5x25 and you have a pretty darn good 1000 yard carry gun.
     
  11. Bob Metcalf

    Bob Metcalf Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Hi Steve,
    I was going on memory yesterday, went home
    and looked at my notes on that 300 winny.
    It's COL was 3.560.
    It shot 180s at 3,300
    " " 200s at a little over 3,000
    and 220s at 2,900
    It would 165s at 3,450.
    Just a fast rifle, could I duplicate that
    in another? I don't know.

    Thanks for all your input. [​IMG]
     
  12. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    351
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob,
    Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with a 300 Win Mag. It still gets the job done after all of these years. The above posts recommended a Sendero in an Ultra and that is a good choice, but the same selection in 300 Win Mag is nothing to sneeze at either in my book. Wish I never sold mine either.

    Steve
     
  13. Nate Haler

    Nate Haler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    189
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Regarding the Sendero, caliber being a personal preference, you should be well served by the factory stock, which is produced under license by H-S Precision. It has an integral full-length aluminum bedding block, which should obviate the need for any further bedding. Just torque the trigger guard screws to 65 INCH pounds, and it should do just fine for you. One tip is to have the rifle buttstock on the floor or table with the muzzle straight up, as you torque the screws. This ensures that the recoil lug will make full contact with the recess in the stock bedding provision for it.

    If you want to shave 1/2 pound off the weight from the regular Sendero, you could opt for the SF (Stainless Fluted) version. Recoil management will be that much more problematic, but I think you will find that a standard .300 Win mag is not intolerable, especially if you augment the factory recoil pad with a sorbathane or similar slip on model. At your height, the extra LOP shouldn't be a big issue.

    If you wish to mount the scope in a forward tilt without resorting to the often expensive bases out there, have a look at the new Leupold 'LR' base, compatible with the 'traditional' (Redfield-style) rings. These one piece bases feature about 15moa of forward tilt. Use the Burris Signature rings, which come with a set of concentric and offset inserts (10moa) in the 30mm version, and you will have an excellent setup. Not too heavy, not too expensive, and capable of the performance you will need.

    Adjust the factory trigger to whatever you like (down to 2 lbs. is usually about the limit with the factory springs, etc.), and there you go.

    Have a good hunt!
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: This & That....A Layman\'s Long Range Rifle?

    Bob, I have to agree with Steve Shelp as to the velocity of your 300 Win mag. Even going to a 300 Wby you won't get 3300fps with a 300 wby. My 300wby get 3164fps with 84.5/7828 and a 180 gr bullet. What rifle do you have and what barrel? I don't think you will be able to do better with a new 30 cal rifle over the one you got and a 338 may be too heavy for deer. I do all my chronographing over an Oehler 35P what one do you use? I've got a custom 300 win mag with a 26" lilja barrel so if you won't mind I would like to get your load and try it in mine. Don't worry I will work it up slowly. I load for about 50 rifles and I've only had one rifle would shoot the published velocity and that was a 7x57AI and the load was out of Speers 1959 wildcat manual #4. [​IMG]