Therohetical Hunting Scenario!

[Chas1]

Given the choices you mentioned, I'd go with 308-220gr round nose. At those distances I wouldn't worry about the brush.

 

[HUAINAMACHERO]

I dont know that much, but if the objective is to have fun while hunting in thick brush, with a special gun, short ranges, and doing something different that the rest of us, then a special pistol, built to shot a 12 gauge slug, with a 20 or 22 inch barrel and a big muzzle brake would probably sound fun to me.
Just one crazy idea that came to my mind.

 

[FEENIX]

I don't think there is any bullet/rifle combo that will maintain poa after impacting brush.
Steve

Ditto!

Brush Guns

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Thanks Feenix.

I'll repeat, no projectile stays on course after making contact with brush or any type of interference along the flight path. Shooting at an obstructed target is quite frankly irresponsible. There is no way to predict with certainty where that bullet will end up.

Steve

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Interesting... I wonder what GS means by "Bush and Dangerous Game Hunting" when recommending stability factors for their bullets?

I've never shot at game through brush and not sure I ever will, but this soundes like it would be a good experiment for a target set up behind some brush.

The article unfortunately doesn't provide any real refferences or data.

 

[liltank]

That is a pretty good read. Most of the loads are 2000fps or less. I wonder if the speed kept down is for less deflection. It makes you wonder how they shot prone and knocked Buffalo down with 45-70's and larger with good effect at long range?

I guess it is the theory of "a big hammer is always better.

Tank

 

[MontanaRifleman]

That is a pretty good read. Most of the loads are 2000fps or less. I wonder if the speed kept down is for less deflection. It makes you wonder how they shot prone and knocked Buffalo down with 45-70's and larger with good effect at long range?

I guess it is the theory of "a big hammer is always better.

Tank

Physics is physics and the laws of physics do not bend.

The name of the game is momentum and momentum is defined a P(momentum) = m (mass) v (velocity). a 200 gr bullet traveling at 4000 fps has the same momentum as a 400 gr bullet travleing at 2000 fps. All else being equal, it takes the same amount of force to deflect either bullet. The key phrase being "all else being equal". There are some other physical principals that complicate the picture. Namely, stability. If a bullet begins to wobble or tumble, then other "forces" begin to work on it and its fight path will be affected.

If a bullet reamains stable, it would take a great deal of force to deflect it significantly.

One issue with high velocity is a greater tendency to deform the bullet. Smaller, faster objects will deform more readily than larger and slower objects. This is why in many cases, a slower bullet will penetrate more than a faster bullet, the reason being the faster bullet expands to a greater frontal area and encounters much more resisitance. It also does much more damage through the channel that it does penetrate.

If I were to shoot a 200 grain bullet at 3000 fps through say10-20 ft of bushes with twigs and small branches I dont think the bullet would be greatly deflected by the time it reaches the far side of the bushes. Depending on its construction, it might open to some degree. It might also begin to tumble, but I think it would probably hit a 12" target on the far side of the bushes.

Anyway, my curiosity is now peaked. I will have to give it a try some time

 

[L-train]

As a Kid I stalked the bogs and deep woodlots of northern MN with a marlin 30-30 or a pump gun full of slugs, and did OK. Think Id go to one of those new heavy bullet levers like the 450s or 444s.

 

[longrifle]

I guess I'm gonna have to qualify my response based on the reactions...I in no way endorse blindly shooting at an animal just because I can see hair. Never have, never will, predator or prey! But if I have the proper shooting lane/sight picture, based on my ability and my marksmanship, or if I'm being hampered only by very small leafy brush obstructions a very close distance to my intended target , I'm gonna pin them to his chest like a flippin' medal!! And I'm gonna harvest that animal, usually without a second shot! It's not failed me yet! Now I don't mean any disrespect to any man, you can call me a liar or an idiot or unsportsmanlike or whatever from wherever you are, I'll laugh and shrug it off...but I've put meat on the table on more than one occasion brush huntin'....and that's all I have to say about that...




Pick a spot...a LITTLE spot...squeeze....

 

[liltank]

Anyway, my curiosity is now peaked. I will have to give it a try some time

I read that and laughed. Glad I can keep the mind juices flowing!

Okay, so I am getting a lot of 30-30 which was not one of my options, but the other popular vote has been the 308 in a round nose of some type and the old reliable 45-70. So would sticking with modern bullets be the ticket for 45-70 or should one consider a molded lead bullet in a round nose of pointed flat base. The reason I ask is because this caliber in a molded bullet possibly using the prescribed 70grains of black (hence the 70) powder sounds like fun.

I just looked in my Lyman reloading manual. You can push a lead alloy 475grn bullet to 1800fps with a BC of .477. You can also push a 535 grain 1760 fps using Varget. These speeds are comparable to modern bullets. I'm thinking this maybe the cheaper, but better option to a jacketed bullet through brush.

I just ran some JBM and I am thinking that a straight lead is the way to go. Look at these numbers.

500grn Rnd Nose Jacket bulletMuzzle velocity 1767) 100yrds= 1523.6 fps and 2576.6 ft.lbs. BC .287

475grn Lead Semi rnd nose BulletMuzzle velocity 1800) 100yrds= 1651.9 fps and 2877.4 ft.lbs. BC .477
535grn Lead Semi rnd nose BulletMuzzle velocity 1767) 100yrds= 1588.3 fps and 2996.3 ft.lbs. BC .402

So I am thinking because you do not gain anything with velocity or energy with a modern jacketed bullet, a cast bullet may be the route to go in this application. I just wanted to crunch numbers with JBM. The BC's and weights of cast alloys and modern bullet come from my Lyman manual.

Tank

 

[liltank]

I guess I'm gonna have to qualify my response based on the reactions...I in no way endorse blindly shooting at an animal just because I can see hair. Never have, never will, predator or prey! But if I have the proper shooting lane/sight picture, based on my ability and my marksmanship, or if I'm being hampered only by very small leafy brush obstructions a very close distance to my intended target , I'm gonna pin them to his chest like a flippin' medal!! And I'm gonna harvest that animal, usually without a second shot! It's not failed me yet! Now I don't mean any disrespect to any man, you can call me a liar or an idiot or unsportsmanlike or whatever from wherever you are, I'll laugh and shrug it off...but I've put meat on the table on more than one occasion brush huntin'....and that's all I have to say about that...

No fire lit here. I make sure I know what I am looking at before I pull the trigger. My biggest fear is seeing someone get hurt or killed because I did not use good judgment. This is merely and exercise in thoughts on what one would think to be practical (not necessarily needed) in a hunting situation that provides an opportunity to harvest that trophy and all you can see is an eye, his rack, and some of his shoulder that is obstructed by foliage of twigs, leaves, grass and a big ole sapling, heavy briers, or variegated rose with heavy vines; right were you need to put the bullet. You get a lot of opportunities like this where I live.

Tank

 

[liltank]

Just for fun, I looked what it took for the 475 to get to 1500yards..... 176MOA and 20.5MOA for a 10mph cross wind!!! Okay class, can we say Howitzer Shootzen!!

 

[longrifle]

Enjoy Brother! And aim just a little to one side or the other of that sapling if it's hiding his shoulder!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

... So would sticking with modern bullets be the ticket for 45-70 or should one consider a molded lead bullet in a round nose of pointed flat base. The reason I ask is because this caliber in a molded bullet possibly using the prescribed 70grains of black (hence the 70) powder sounds like fun.

I just looked in my Lyman reloading manual. You can push a lead alloy 475grn bullet to 1800fps with a BC of .477. You can also push a 535 grain 1760 fps using Varget. These speeds are comparable to modern bullets. I'm thinking this maybe the cheaper, but better option to a jacketed bullet through brush.

I think a hardcast bullet would work well, but I think the absolute best bullet for busting brush would be a .50 cal round hardcast lead ball. No stability issues with that bullet. It will go in a straight line.

And after giving it a little thought. If I were to to build a dedicated brush buster, it would be a 375 WSM (short action bolt) shooting these...

GS CUSTOM BULLETS - Specifications for use

I would expect a velocity of about 2800 fps out of a 22" barrel with these 300 gr blunt nosed bullets. I think they would handle light brush fairly well within 100 yds (not through 100 yds of brush) and would be good to about 200 yds or so for clear shooting. They would be tough enough to resist deforming by light brush and their fronts expand somewhat down to about 2000 fps on contact with game. A 10" twist would give them a very good stability factor of 4.

What is this thread doing in the LR hunting section???