The first wildcats to cross my muzzle.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 4ked Horn, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    I took advantage of the sunny weather last Sunday to go to the desert and do a little shooting. I'm glad it was a little because the wind was blowing and it was a fair bit colder then I anticipated. The desert floor was that slick sort of muddy that cakes to the bottom of boots and makes them weigh twice their normal weight but not muddy enough to sink into or get the suburban stuck. Where is the ATV when you need it?

    I was mostly doing some scope work for my brother but I brought 10 .308 Win rounds loaded with wildcat bullets I have been meaning to test for about 9 months. The bullets were 169.5 grain hollow points with .010" jackets in both flat base and RBBT. The powder was 41.4 gr of H335 with standard Fed primers.

    The first shots were one of the FBs and one of the RBBTs each at a mere 25 yards. I was seeing if the rounds would hit paper since I already had the target there for the other gun.

    [​IMG]

    I'm thinking "not too bad for an undeveloped load using two slightly different bullets".

    So out to 100 yards we go.

    This picture is of my shots with the FBs at 100. I had one flier. May have been me, may have been the wind. I'll go with the wind option. Again I'm thinking "Not too shabby." I usually have to work pretty hard to come up with a group like this.

    [​IMG]

    Then I shoot the RBBTs. I'm not exactly sure what this group is all about. I have 2 shots very close to each other but they are not consecutive shots. I have two shots sort of symmetrically placed at either end of the group but does it even matter? I'm wondering which shots to ignore and which ones to be happy about.

    [​IMG]
    I will hopefully be going to the desert this coming Sunday to shoot the rest of the test rounds at 300 yards over a chrono. Maybe this will be more telling. Maybe the RBBTs need a little distance to go to sleep. We will see. Either way, I am quite happy with the groups (the small parts) and look forward to what hopefully lies ahead. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Looks like a good start. Jump back to 300 yards and it will be easier to seperate the great loads from the good loads. Looks like there is alot of potential there!!

    Keep us posted!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     

  3. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Looks like there is alot of potential there!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not too shabby when you consider the only thing done to the gun from the factory is bedding and trigger adjustment!
     
  4. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta love them Wildcat bullets. Very accurate. I tried the 125g ULD in my 25-06. I never found a load that went over 1.5" at 200 yards. Good ones went 1.5" at 300. Like Kirby said, try them at 300 or so, and then you'll have a lot better idea what will be what. I usually just skip 100 yard testing now and go straight to 200. Then when I see something pretty good, I'll go to 300. Good groups, you dont usually have to do to much load testing to get those kinda groups with wildcat bullets, even out of factory rifles with nothing more then a trigger job and free floated barrels, such as my 25-06.
     
  5. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    On kirbys advice via email I used the same load for these 169.5 grainers that I use for the nosler 168 J4s so the load is technically undeveloped but not just a crap shoot either. He also advised me to use fired brass but I couldn't resist the urge to put some pressure in some new brass in preparation for my new neck sizing dies to do their stuff.

    The .308 rem 700 VLS is about as stock as I can stand. I have done a home job on the trigger, bedded the action, floated the bbl (being sure to erase the positive pressure bumbs remington put at the end of the stock) and lastly done some JB bore scrubbing with particular attention to not mess with the muzzle and a healthy bit of coppermelt within the last few months after any shooting for hunting season. I was careful to do the best break in on the bbl that I was capable of when I first got it. Other than that she is bone stock. Oh I did have it bead blasted and blued the same day it was purchased. Goodness knows matte guns shoot better than those with a satin finish. The only fancy thing about the gun is a Darryl Holland 20 moa one piece scope mount. The lower half of the rings are the same chunk of metal as the base. There was no lapping, no alligning. He installed it and it has not moved since.

    I will be sure to post pictures of the groups we get this weekend for all to see. Good or bad. But I'm guessing it is going to end up squarely in the good column.
     
  6. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting to me to notice that the shot sequence and flier shots, #3, on both groups are relatively in the same positions. I wonder if you are having issues with a loose screw somewhere allowing the bullets to "spray" if you will in the same sequence (or a crooked bedding job). One occurance is no conspiracy theory, but it just reminded me of a similar problem I had early on with one of my rifles.
     
  7. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    I have quite a few "flyers" on my 3rd shot. I dont know what its from, but If I load up 4 shots, I will have a cluster of 3, with the 3rd shot usually the flyer. Now keep in mind I am shooting factory barrels and there not even totally free floated. Just trigger job and good reloads. I am being told you cant always expect groups like that with factory rifles, but dang it I sure like to try anyways. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  8. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    I will keep an eye on this third shot thing. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm curious how one would end up with a crooked bedding job and further more, how it is remedied. I'm not sure on the loose screw either but if I see the third shot becoming a problem I will certainly look at this as well.
     
  9. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

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    I had the bedding issue on my .22-250. It would alternate POI between the 2nd and 5th shots. Ends up, the front left and rear right corners of the pillars were higher than the rest. The action was not sitting flush or in a repeatable fashion. My uncle rebedded it for me, and now it devours 50 to &lt; 60 gr bullets with about 1/2 MOA average. I have never fired it at 500 m, but both my brothers have with sub MOA groups. I look for similar findings with all my other factory rifles now. Hope this helps.
     
  10. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Yep. It helps. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  11. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm curious how one would end up with a crooked bedding job and further more, how it is remedied.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    After taking the action off the stock about twenty times, I finally saw it was bedded with contact on the right rear edge of the magazine well. This was enough to cause the erratic flyers at weird and random times.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    .308 Win rounds loaded with wildcat bullets The bullets were 169.5 grain hollow points standard Fed primers.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I like Fed 215 for my Mags and I'm looking for primers for the .308 Kirby just sent me. Are standard Fed primers a good choice?
     
  13. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    I have learned from several places that ball powders like the H335 I have been using should be used with mag primers or at least hot primers. I have also heard here and there that the federal primers are the hottest in their respective classes. That is why I use them. (anyone have a link to a study on this?)

    I have always used them up until recently so I don't have anything to compare them to. I am learning rather quickly that winchester primers ar a smidg smaller diameter than the others and they seem to seat too easily. Will this be a problem? I sure hope not. But if I have even a single one come out before, during or after a string of fire I'll be done with them faster than a cricket goes through a goose.

    (thats fast)

    Stay tuned for a report in another thread on how this Sundays shooting session goes. I'll have it all in there if it dosen't rain.