The big question

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by freezingduck, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. freezingduck

    freezingduck Member

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    First i would like to thank you all for a great forum, and introduce myself.
    I'm from Norway.
    I work as a Helicopter pilot.
    I am an long range competition shooter.
    I am 25 years old.

    In Norway we have this funny new laws that state that you can only own 6 firearms for hunting.
    The only upside is that barrels only counts as a gun part, so we can have as many different calibers as we wont as long as we are able to swap them out ourself, system rifles.
    I have a wide variety of competition rifles in different calibers, and a remington 700 in .308 for hunting.

    I am now looking into buying a system rifle that is lightweight.
    I am looking at primarly the Blaser R93, but also others like the Sauer 202, mauser m03 and others.

    I am pretty much set on the 6,5x55 for long range deer hunting, the .308 chopped to 16'' and suppressed for late night fox hunting, and I am unsure about a last caliber for long range elk hunting and possibly a bear hunting trip in the future.
    as I see it the 7mm rem. mag and the .300wm is my two best options, which one should I pick?
    I have read the article whats wrong with .30 cal by brian litz, and I still keep on arguing with myself, which one is better.

    Stopping power and ballistic performance is is my two major concerns.
    I reload myself of course;)

    I know its possible to use all these calibers at short ranges for elk/moose, but what about the big bears?
     
  2. The Surgeon

    The Surgeon Well-Known Member

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    You need to also read another article by Brian.

    The Berger 230 grain Target Hybrid is the highest BC bullet available for .30 caliber. Berger’s introduction of the Hybrid design has been very successful at achieving it's goals of length tolerance (less sensitivity to seating depth) and high BC. This particular bullet is the heaviest .30 caliber bullet made by Berger and shares many design proportions with the 7mm 180 grain Hybrid and 338 caliber 300 grain Hybrid.

    For many years, there has been a shortage of well designed heavy bullets in .30 caliber. In fact, the article: "What's Wrong With .30 Caliber?" was written about this very problem; which is a shortage of well designed heavy bullets for .30 caliber. This 230 grain bullet as well as it's little brother (the 215 grain Berger Hybrid) have filled the gap well.

    At first glance, the sheer weight of this bullet may cause many shooters to assume it's only suited to large volume cases like the 300 Winchester Magnum and larger. However for long range competition, especially Palma and F-TR, this bullet can do a lot to enhance wind performance if the shooter can manage the recoil. It doesn't matter that the bullet starts out under 2500 fps and has 40 MOA of drop; the name of the game is wind, and this bullet will minimize wind deflection better than lighter bullets, even at a depressed MV.

    Stability is good from the common 1:10" twist.

    For more reading on Berger's line of .30 caliber hybrids, visit: Berger Adds 215gr and 230gr Hybrids to .30 Caliber Bullet Line

    This bullet is available loaded in the .300 Winchester Magnum cartridge from Applied Ballistics Munitions.
     

  3. The Surgeon

    The Surgeon Well-Known Member

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    As far as system rifles, I like Desert Tactical arms. If you are looking at Elk and Bear at long range, I think you would not be disappointed in the 300 WM. The 308 will do the job also, but it all depends on what you call long range.

    Here is a link to Desert Tactical:

    Precision Rifles - Guns - Desert Tactical Arms
     
  4. silvertip-co

    silvertip-co Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum. PLease encourage more of your Norwegian and Swedish shooting friends to come aboard also. I hope to hunt Sverige one day when I retire. A .338 Win Mag is great bear medicine. Skoal !
     
  5. freezingduck

    freezingduck Member

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    the funny thing about hunting in Norway is that to be allowed to hunt moose, you have to shoot five shoots into a 12'' circle at 100m or 110 yards.
    Actually a large amount of the hunters have 5000 dollar rifles and up, but they only shoot the mandatory 30 round practice shots, and have a big problem passing the test.
    I spoke with a local hunting team the other day at the range, they were trying to recruit me.
    they told me that none of them ever fired at moose beyond 150 yards, and the ones that did where irresponsible hunters.
    I knew that some of them had problem passing the test, so i just dropped behind my rifle and fired 3 rounds into a 4 inch target at 450 yards.
    I then tried to explain to them that its more irresponsible of them to take a shot at 100 yards than me at 450 yards.
    they got angry and left, so i always hunt on my own sadly.
    it is starting to show up 500 yard shooters in norway, and some 1000yard capable shooters, but they are few and far between.
     
  6. freezingduck

    freezingduck Member

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    I love the DTA SRS, but its to damn heavy to hunt with, its a great designated long range rifle thou;)
     
  7. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Welcome aboard sir! I don't know how available Savage arms are to you but they make a fairly inexpensive rifle that will shoot sub moa in a large variety of cartridges. With a barrel wrench and a little practice, you can easily switch barrels yourself which would fit right in with your laws. For large animals such as moose and elk, bigger is better. I would go with the 30 over the 7mm..........Rich
     
  8. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Your foxes must be the size of Volkswagons if you need a sawed off .308 to kill them???????
     
  9. Good

    Good Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Savage, plus the bolt head is easily replaced in about 10 minutes for different cartridges. Standard .473 (308, 243, 30-06, et) can be changed to the magnum .540 by you easily.

    I disagree with the 30 cal vs 7mm though, unless you plan to shoot Berger's tactical bullets, then a 300RUM or similar is beast. But, for moose and elk, 338 RUM and up.

    So, a 2 or 3 gun battery is a must in my opinion. 243 AI shooting the biggest bullets you can find for deer and below and a 338 Lapua or similar for the big stuff is my choice.

    Second behind the 243 is a 7mm with 6.5 being 3rd, and a 30cal rounding up the group as 4th pick, imho.
     
  10. freezingduck

    freezingduck Member

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    If you haven't seen a norvegian fox, you cant really understand the size...
    Sometimes you have fill em so full of led that they are to heavy to run before you are able to get within shotgun slug range.

    No, but there re so many stupid rules here, and so expensive to reload that i try to stay with as few calibers as possible.
    the minimum approved bullet weight for hunting ''large game'' deer an up is 140gr.
    I dont think it would be smart of me to have to many specialized calibers.
    I always hunt with a suppressor, and the .308 is one of the few calibers I can easily reload for while maintaining a short barrel length and possibly subsonic.
    some of the places that I hunt is pretty near houses, trying to stay as short and quiet as possible.
     
  11. bard

    bard New Member

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    I live in Norway too and hunt there.

    First no system rifle is light, the lightest one is still heavy. However if you like only 3 shoot magazine then blaser r93 is probably ok for you.

    Sauer 202 can use DFS rifle sauer 200 str barrels. BUT it is not easy to swap caliber group. Then it is blaser with small magazine you cannot upgrade or mauser m03 which has it all but is relatively heavy.

    Caliber for fox that I use is 223 rem with short barrel and atec maxim silencer and shortened barrel, loaded with 50 grain vmax or ballistic tip and you have a winner.

    Caliber for roe deer, caribu and crown deer for me is 6.5x55 loaded with 140 grain sierra game king, great combo.

    And for moose plus beer hunt including grizzly in Canada I use 338 winmag with 250 grain speer grandslam.

    For the combo above I use mauser m03.

    Also the 6 gun law is for hunting, so pistol or revolver is not counted, any competition rifle is not counted, and practical gun such as AR15 for example is not counted, so register the guns for competition or whatever but hunting and you can own 50 or 100 if you want.

    Good luck.