Temperature sensitive powder?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by specweldtom, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    JECustom and I have both heard that the Reloader powders are very temperature sensitive. I have a good load in .280 Rem with Reloader 22. Should I be looking for another powder?

    Thanks, Tom

    On edit: added "very" to sensitive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2007
  2. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    All powders are temperature sensitive even the "Extreme" series. Tested too many times but that being said I tend to use more of the "Extreme" powders because several of them shoot so well in my rifles.
     

  3. Guy M

    Guy M Well-Known Member

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    Tom, I heard that about Reloader 22 well after I'd worked up a nice shooting load for my 7mm Rem mag. And a buddy's .300 Win mag. And my son's 6mm Remington...

    It bugged me for a while, then I realized that none of us had any problems with our rifles or the loads I'd worked up, so I just let it ride. We get some pretty good extremes of temperatures here too. I've shot at my gun club at zero degrees in January and 100+ degrees in August. I often have more time for load work in the winter, but I always test my loads a bit in the heat of summer just to check. Then fall comes around and I'm hunting in cooler weather anyway.

    Did ruin some .308 cases on a hot day once, but they weren't loaded with Reloader 22.

    I'd say it's worth keeping an eye on the ammo you've loaded with Reloader 22, but I wouldn't go scrapping a good load just because the powder has a reputation for temperature sensitivity. Maybe it's simply not bad enough to affect you or your loads.

    Regards, Guy
     
  4. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    IMO all powders are temp and humidity sensitive to some degree. I have not noticed that RL22 was any more suseptible to these variations than say retumbo or even imr 4831.
     
  5. 7mmSendaro

    7mmSendaro Well-Known Member

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    With RL19 I noticed about a 30 fps jump in velocity and minor pressure signs in my 7RM. However, that was with a 70 degree temperature swing. I don't have any experience with the "Extreme" powders yet to compare to but hope to soon.
     
  6. shiredude

    shiredude Writers Guild

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    i was concerned about this 'theory' as well and have gotten some pretty good feed back at matches, gun stores, etc. I believe that some people have one bad day and will blame it on the powder????? In other words, none seem to have any proof. they get scattered groups one time and change, they dont really get down to the problem, might be the powder, might be something else????
    I have a certain load in a 243 AI that I use Re 22, worked my load up this summer in +90 degrees, the coolest ive shot it is about 45 degrees but have seen no ill effects as of yet. also use it 300 WM but have not tested in extreme temps...... yet
     
  7. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    Fellas,
    I've heard this same thing from numerous shooters. I'm a competitive shooter for many years now in IBS/NBRSA/PA 600 and 1000yd clubs. I've fired in matches from NY to NC and from the east coast to as far west as Colorado. I personally use R22 in my 30 caliber Heavy class(HG) rifles. And I use H4831SC in my LG class rifle.
    After keeping an eye on this for years, most shooters here have it nailed down. Yes it is affected some, but not as much as everyone would like you to beleive. Shiredude I think hit the nail on the head. One bad day or even a couple doesn't mean anything. But when you start looking at data over several years and many different ranges I don't think R22 is any more sentives than any other powder for your particular case.

    The one exception to my theory is with WW748 in my 223. It shoots like a house a fire in the hot summer months here in NC. But take it out in the cooler winter months and it will open up the groups considerably. I've been experimenting with Benchmark and got some good groups in the heat of the summer. Have not tried it during the winter yet. Isn't cool enough here yet.

    But I have taken the same successful loads in my BR rifles here on the east coast and driven to Byers, Colorado or Pierre, SD at a much higher elevation, different temperature and humidity ranges and fired the same loads and still finished near the top.
    I beleive with maybe a few exceptions that IF a load does go haywire on you at a different elevation, humidity, temperature... then the load probably really wasn't properly tuned to your rifle that well to begin with. Meaning, if 72gr of R22 will shoot at sea level at 90F and same humidity and I drive to Byers at 70F, elevation of several thousand feet above sea level, and humidity below 50% and still shoot the same groups at 1000yds. Then that load has a broad tune range and is very forgiving. Yes the pressure probably changed some with that much change but it didn't drop me out of my sweet spot that I had tuned for.
    Maybe if I shot H1000 it might shoot at sea-level but not in Byers... then H1000 doesn't have a wide sweet spot for the tune in that particular barrel. My theory is that the powder has some to do with it but it's more in the harmonics of the barrel (your tune) that causes a particualr load to go south with a narrower sweet spot.
    In my Light Gun(LG) class rifle I have used my same old faithful load of 50.5gr of H4831 (long or short cut) with bullet weighing from 135 to 147 gr and it always works and have won with it in varying conditions and many different states and elevations. That load is a great marriage in my chamber and barrel. So I don't mess with it. Well until I got to the bottom of the first 8# jug. But that is a whole other story and tests aren't conclusive yet.

    In any event I look for a load with a wide sweet spot and don't really get bent out of shape about the temp, humidity etc. Now for example if the temps go way up, then I might drop my load a little just to keep the tune "centered" so that during the actual match I don't get those "where the @#$%#@ did that come from?" situation.

    Steve
     
  8. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Steve---just curious but I would think that shooting at 1k you would be paying VERY close attention to your extreme spreads as we all know an ES of 20fps in one condition is great but make that 60fps in another because the load was developed at 65 degrees but you are shooting at 90…

    Have spent many hours at the ranch shooting across the 35 and shaking my head at what powders will do.. One of the many things that Speedy taught me was to do this as there is no substitute for actual testing. I use H4350 in my LG’s which is all I shoot right now but in my 6.5x284 it seems to shoot the best groups and exhibit the best ES numbers. The difference in 20fps and 60fps will knock you out every time with the vertical spread that is caused.
     
  9. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    This is the first load in any caliber that I have used RL 22 in. No experience at all with it. Thanks to all the replies and the experience shared, I have relaxed and am quite comfortable with this load, which is 56 gr with a 150 Smkhp and 250 BR-2 primer. Some loads just seem to sound and feel good when you shoot them. This is one of them. I will go ahead and chronograph a session with this load now.

    It is my first 280. Oh yeah, it only has iron sights.

    The first guy that asked me what I thought about the .280, I asked him if you neck a 30-06 down to 7mm, how bad could it be?

    Again, thanks to all, Tom
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  10. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    This is my question:



    [​IMG]
    Would a reputable company like Hodgdon cook up a bunch of lies like the chart above shows, deceiving people in the most discriminating way, to make sales and would companies like Reloader and Vit etc. go along with such a farce that eventually puts them down as a lesser product? Wouldn't Reloader sue Hodgdon for lying like that? Is it possible? why would Reloader leave it alone when it would hurt them? Is it possible that there is more than some truth in it for Hodgdon to make the claims that they are making? Just asking?
     
  11. Jumpalot

    Jumpalot Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^Because that's advertising. That's why Chevy, Ford and Dodge all say they make the best trucks. I've been shooting RL22 for about 5 years now and have had no problems. The load I developed was during 60-70 degree weather. I used the same load last season to connect on a cow elk over 600 yds. when the wind chill registered -20 degrees. Whatever velocity change there was, wasn't much. Also have shot antelope when it was over 90 degrees and didn't experience any pressure or significant change in velocity.
     
  12. mikebob

    mikebob Well-Known Member

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    I shoot r22 in my 300 win mag. I have found not much differ at all. I dial the same cold or hot and am able to still hit all my targets which are smaller than vital zones on deer. I have however found that it does differ accasionally in lots. So buy a 5lb or kkep track of your lot # and there wont be a problem there. I have tried h4831 and didnt get as much velocity with no accuracy gains, with h4350 i got velocity increase but lost some accuracy. I was worried about it to from all the temp hipe but im really glad i stuck with it in my 300 mag it is a good powder.
     
  13. 41mag

    41mag Well-Known Member

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    Hey Tom,

    I hav e used several of the RL powders over the past 18 or so years, mainly 19 and 22. I have shot them in several calibers from mild loads up to top end primer ironers. My experience with them is that if your on the upper end of the spectrum you will notice things much more than the middle ground loads. My standard load for my 25-06 was 56,5grs of 22 lit by a Win/WLR pushing a 115gr partition out at 3150fps. In my particular rifle this was not the absolute top end load but about 1.5grs shy. I shot it in temps ranging from mid 20's up through 100+ and it held it's groups fine and the only noticable differences were on the low temp end where it printed about 1/2 - 3/4" low at 300yds.

    With the 19 I noticed a bit more swing but still it maintianed consistancy in groups only printed a little higher or lower depending on the temp. This load was in a 7 mag shooting 162gr Hornadies. This load was on the edge of top end and during temps of 90+ would start to flatten primers, however below that it worked very well and showed no other signs.

    The only problem I ever really had with either of them was with a 30-06 load using a compressed charge under a 165gr BT. I worked it up in 90+ degree weather and it rocked shooting super small groups out to 450yds where it was grouping under 3" easily. I had worked it up and zeroed the rifle for one particular buck we had been seeing out around 400yds, and wanted to anchor him in his tracks. When hunting season rolled around I had a shot on a different buck just over 300yds across our back pasture, temps were in the low 40's and dropping. When I touched the first round off I thought I had grabbed the wrong ammo, the second round sounded like a squib load. The buck never even got alarmed from either of them. I set that rifle down and finished the morning with the 25 which I had brought along for something up close. After things warmed up the load shot as usual.

    If I were you and shooting that particular load I would purchase a bulk of that powder in that lot. I have seen way more noticable differences in lot variations than anything else with these powders.

    Now RL-25, well thats a different story.
     
  14. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    In what way is it a different story?