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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Taking opinions on a 30 cal cartridge for a future build
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<blockquote data-quote="Bart B" data-source="post: 1164092" data-attributes="member: 5302"><p>If the Surgeon's the same outside diameter as the Remington, they're probably about equal. The 591 repeater weighs 2lbs 1.6 oz so it is very close to that of the Remington short action one. The Winchester 70 is a longer action by about ½ inch so it's better for the longer cartridges and should be compared to other long actions. That aside, the short action Win 70's are stiffer than the short action Rem 700 ones. </p><p></p><p>Remington made their 40X short action match rifles chambered for the .30-.338 and 7mm Rem Mag rounds and were a nightmare to use in matches if one had to unload a live round.</p><p></p><p>How accurate were they?</p><p></p><p>Did they ever put 15 to 20 shots inside 2/3 MOA at 1000 yards all fired in 10 to 15 minutes properly tested with either new cases or properly full length sized ones? The OP wants a long range rifle.</p><p> </p><p>Were did I say belted cases were unreliable and not as accurate? </p><p></p><p>Does the military save their fired .300 Win Mag cases then reload them? I don't think so. They use new cases to see if the M24's meet accuracy specs. And from what I've seen, those specs are not all that great: "The extreme spread of any individual 10-shot group shall not exceed 9.0 inches at 600 yards. The average extreme spread of ten, 10-shot groups shall not exceed 7.0 inches at 600 yards." Therefore, specs say the ammo has to test 1.5 MOA at 600 yards; it'll be close to 2 MOA at 1000. While some lots may be better, that's what forces have to count on. </p><p></p><p>Get a rifle that'll shoot 15 to 20 shots inside 10 inches at 1000 yards with any case then compare both sizing methods. If you do all the right stuff with the right stuff, the difference will be easily seen.</p><p></p><p>In their heyday at long range matches, the best of the 7mm Rem Mags, .30-.338's and .300 Win Mags would test under 2/3 MOA at 1000 yards for 20 to 30 shots fired in almost as many minutes. The civilian and military team members winning and setting records learned that conventional full length sizing those belted cases then reloading them didn't equal what new cases produced for best accuracy. Military teams often gave their once fired cases to civilians as they used only new cases. Civilians learned that if a body die was made that sized only the case body all the way to the belt returning it to virtual new case dimensions, accuracy was best and equaled what new cases would produce. Check out <a href="http://www.larrywillis.com" target="_blank">www.larrywillis.com</a> to see a collet die that does that quite well; best thing for belted case accuracy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bart B, post: 1164092, member: 5302"] If the Surgeon’s the same outside diameter as the Remington, they’re probably about equal. The 591 repeater weighs 2lbs 1.6 oz so it is very close to that of the Remington short action one. The Winchester 70 is a longer action by about ½ inch so it’s better for the longer cartridges and should be compared to other long actions. That aside, the short action Win 70's are stiffer than the short action Rem 700 ones. Remington made their 40X short action match rifles chambered for the .30-.338 and 7mm Rem Mag rounds and were a nightmare to use in matches if one had to unload a live round. How accurate were they? Did they ever put 15 to 20 shots inside 2/3 MOA at 1000 yards all fired in 10 to 15 minutes properly tested with either new cases or properly full length sized ones? The OP wants a long range rifle. Were did I say belted cases were unreliable and not as accurate? Does the military save their fired .300 Win Mag cases then reload them? I don’t think so. They use new cases to see if the M24's meet accuracy specs. And from what I’ve seen, those specs are not all that great: “The extreme spread of any individual 10-shot group shall not exceed 9.0 inches at 600 yards. The average extreme spread of ten, 10-shot groups shall not exceed 7.0 inches at 600 yards.” Therefore, specs say the ammo has to test 1.5 MOA at 600 yards; it’ll be close to 2 MOA at 1000. While some lots may be better, that’s what forces have to count on. Get a rifle that’ll shoot 15 to 20 shots inside 10 inches at 1000 yards with any case then compare both sizing methods. If you do all the right stuff with the right stuff, the difference will be easily seen. In their heyday at long range matches, the best of the 7mm Rem Mags, .30-.338's and .300 Win Mags would test under 2/3 MOA at 1000 yards for 20 to 30 shots fired in almost as many minutes. The civilian and military team members winning and setting records learned that conventional full length sizing those belted cases then reloading them didn’t equal what new cases produced for best accuracy. Military teams often gave their once fired cases to civilians as they used only new cases. Civilians learned that if a body die was made that sized only the case body all the way to the belt returning it to virtual new case dimensions, accuracy was best and equaled what new cases would produce. Check out [url]www.larrywillis.com[/url] to see a collet die that does that quite well; best thing for belted case accuracy. [/QUOTE]
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Taking opinions on a 30 cal cartridge for a future build
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