subsistence or sport?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by partisan1911, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. partisan1911

    partisan1911 Well-Known Member

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    I am a college student up here in AK and am writing a paper on subsistence. My first paper is what other scholars are saying about it using secondary sources and my second paper is what I think about the subject using primary sources.

    Right now my subject contains a wide variety of subtopics ie. economy, commercial etc and I need to narrow it down. Outside of technical papers by ADF&G, anthropolgy accounts, or stories written by natives. Does anyone have any other sources that may sound applicable? Our library doesn't seem to have any books written in a historical sense.

    Growing up my family hunted to put food on the table but now that I have a decent income I would consider myself a sport hunter.

    Here are some terms I think help messy up the situation: personal use, tier I, tier II, barter, community use.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Don't quite know what your looking for but, I hunt for meat and my income is high enough that I don't really need to but I prefer wild game because it is just better than beef. I also give a lot of meat to people who need it in the church, elderly people or families that just didn't have a successful season hunting. Don't get me wrong, putting meat on the table is a blast and I also do it for fun, but there are days I'm out dragging elk that if I didn't need roast's and burger I would not be there!
    I do not have enough income for the sport hunting I would like to do out of state so I meat hunt in state.
     

  3. partisan1911

    partisan1911 Well-Known Member

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    Location definately has alot to do with it. Here in AK, living in the bush is a great reason to subsist off the land. The issue with that is that game can be commercially sold because it is based off a "traditional" barter system. If you think about game as a scarce resource it can be argued that it should be used for personal use only. I can see that supplementing your food through sport hunting is good for management reasons both personal and environmental reasons but selling it to support "wants" is a different story.

    Looking at it purely in a cost based situation for people that live on the road system and near grocery stores is there a limit of how much money a person makes? Susbsitence hunters up here are exactly in that situation. They are given special hunts and quotas to ensure there is meat on the table or in turn in thier pocket book. At initial glance that may sound good but you see them hauling thier game out on thier brand new atv with meat wagon, loading it up on a trailer and driving away in thier brand new Diesel truck.

    Does anyone recall any books that discuss this that are not pro-commercial subsistence? Commercial fishing and sport hunting is obviously tightly regulated to ensure the renewable resources but subsistence regulation is still in the stage of observe and report.

    I have only found a couple books written about it and they are all one sided. That side points towards the necessity of subsistence. I am trying to argue that if you are using a brand new jet boat with $20,000 worth of jet engine on it that you are no longer subsisting and should be categorized as conducting commercial or sport hunting/fishing.
     
  4. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Im sure theres a ton of literature on Claude Dallas in Oregon, Nevada and Idaho.
    He was a subsistance hunter/trapper in desert, and ranch country, who didnt feel it was nescisary to stay current on permits/tags. He just wanted to live off the land, and be left alone. When the game warden came to "check things out"..... well things went very very bad very very quick.
    He's a local ledgend and hero to some, and a cop killer to others, but either way, it may tie into your story.
    No one I know would condone what happened. It wasnt a good ending for anyone involved. Nor would anyone I know purposefully put thier self in that position. But you make up your own mind about him, and what happened, and why it happened.

    Now back on topic, normal behavior for myself and most others I know is exactly as Bigngreen described. He nailed it as far as what category most of us fall into.
    Sounds like an interesting, and somewhat controvercial paper. Difficult to write for something that sounds so cut and dried huh. Alot deeper than it sounds on the surface, or in casual conversation. Good luck I hope you ACE it.

    UAF? Just wondering
     
  5. partisan1911

    partisan1911 Well-Known Member

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    I am at UAF for a history degree. The Army gave me a year of sabatical to get a degree. Unfortunately I am cramming two years into one and still may be one class short. It really cuts into my hunting.

    I am going to look into finding more information on Claude Dallas. Subsistence is highly controversial and most of the information written is one sided. AK is supposedly on the cutting edge in on this topic but very little scholarly information has been written so it is difficult to find sources. For this paper I am only supposed to use secondary sources. Next semester is the same topic but primary sources only. They are alot easier to find on this subject.

    Your post just reminded of a famous guy up here I may be able to use. Papa Pilgrim was half heartedly trying to subsist in here with his family. His story is a bit more off topic due to the moral issues he was halving but I will have to see what I can pull. I run into the same problem with this story. Not too much information on him other than news and court proceedings.
     
  6. Gene Jr.

    Gene Jr. Well-Known Member

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    You mention commercial hunting and fishing but didn't mention trapping at all. Trapping fits the situation you are struggling with. It is done for sport and for profit and many struggle politically with the profit side of the equation. It's easy to defend hand to mouth subsistance, not so easy to defend a profitable business. Although the proffesional trappers I know are not living in $500K homes although they may (most don't) drive a new truck.

    Just a thought: The fish, meat animal or furbearer doesn't know or care if it was killed for sport or profit. They need to be managed for the good of the specie not the taker of the animal.
     
  7. Speedo

    Speedo Well-Known Member

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    The issue in Alaska gets to be more complex, in that the federal government uses different criteria for the management of game in a subsistence situation than what the state is allowed to do under the Alaska State Constitution. The board of game has tried on more than one occasion to circumvent the state constitution only to have regulations struck down by the state court system.
    The state constitution treats everyone equally and that bothers most people who have a vested interest in getting preferential treatment.

    Gus
     
  8. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Very well stated.
     
  9. rifleman0714

    rifleman0714 Member

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    I grew up poor , raised by coal miners in southern pa. We also farmed, so if didnt come off the farm or out of the woods, you bartered for it. But that was real living. Now, I guess mostly for sport, or tradition really.