Sticky Bolt after 3rd-4th shot on brass

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by LongRangeBangin, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. LongRangeBangin

    LongRangeBangin Well-Known Member

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    I am having a problem with cases sticking, and a heavy bolt lift after about the 3rd-4th shot on a piece of brass. Ejection is flawless on new and once fired brass, but gets a little sticky on the 3rd shot, and progressively gets worse the more I shoot on that piece of brass. By the time I have 4-5 shots or so on a particular piece of brass, I maybe cycling the bolt up and down 3-4 times before the case can be extracted. 3rd shot may show signs of an ejector mark on case head , 4th shot starts to show scrapes on case head from like ejector scraping on it. Thanks for the help...Heres the info on my shooter.
    Savage 110 338 Lapua
    Lapua Brass
    Berger 300 gr OTM
    85 gr H1000
    .008 off the lans (Hunting rifle and they barely fit in the clip)
    RCBS Dies
    FL Resizing
     

  2. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    See similar threads below!
     

  3. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    Probably you need to bump the shoulder back a bit more than you are.

    Annealing of the neck/shoulder area of the case after 4 firings should also help.
     
  4. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    We all know that scenario.....:rolleyes:

    Bench Source makes a fine annealing machine, Graf's has them in stock btw. Be prepared to fork over 500 bucks however.

    It's the price of shooting a magnum round..............:)

    I think I'd switch to Redding bushing dies, the set with the body die.

    I's also be watching the case mouth for cracks...... 4 bangs and it's getting workhardened.
     
  5. LongRangeBangin

    LongRangeBangin Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate all the feed back. I have looked over some of the like threads, but I am not seeing anything remotely close to my problem. My problem is very consistant. Get a few shots on the brass, and they start sticking without changing anything. I have never had a problem with a new or once fired brass sticking, even with shooting a hotter load when I was developing loads.
    The case mouths looks fine, and I can easily insert a bullet by hand in a spent case. Forgive me for being in the minor leagues here, but how do I push the necks back further when I am running a FL resizer? Invest in a neck resizer?
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Couple questions and couple facts.

    1. How far are you bumping the shoulders back now on the brass sized 4x?

    2. What is body size dimension change about .200 above extractor groove from virgin brass to 4x fired as compared to FL sized brass? KEY ISSUE here.

    You can measure 3-4x with caliper to get an average, but blade micrometer is better.

    Facts

    1. Annealing has nothing to do with extraction, especially in your case. You anneal the case neck for uniformity of neck tension on seating bullets.

    2. Bumping the shoulders back will not solve extraction issues UNLESS you are not doing it enough to have smooth chambering. If you have smooth chambering, then shoulder bump is not your issue.

    Shoulder and case neck issues cause hard chambering, not extraction normally.

    My bet is you have an issue between your chamber specs and the FL size die you are using. Your chamber might be on the outer end of SAAMI while and the size die is the same and you are not getting any/very much body sizing if any at all. Many times, this is where your hard extraction is coming from if not way overpressure. Normally, size dies tend to be on the small end of SAAMI, to allow enough sizing to chamber everything.

    My bet is this is the issue, and you need another size die or Redding body die.

    Redding body die ($27) would be what I would go with first. Your body dimension changes will tell you if that is the issue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  7. LongRangeBangin

    LongRangeBangin Well-Known Member

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    I am a limitless lost on knowing how much I am bumping the shoulders back. I do know that as cases start to get a little sticky ( lets say on the 3rd shot) I have resized them and they chambered easily. But when shot, they were more progressively worse to extract then the previous shot out of the case. I will get some specs for you on some of the dimensions on some new, once fired, and cases with 3-4 shots on them. Thanks for the help. Your all in an entirely different league then me. Thanks for the patience.
     
  8. SAPPER26

    SAPPER26 Well-Known Member

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    Longrange,

    What dies are you using? I had a similar problem with my custom lapua. New and once fired brass were fine, bolt wasn't stiff extracting. 3rd time was a different story. I could still get the brass out easy enough, but it was very stiff, even after I backed off the load plenty. I re-sized them with a FL Forster match die. Chambered a freshly sized round and it was stiff closing the bolt and lifting. Shoulder was bumped back .002". Bumped back farther, still stiff. After talking to the guys on here, I had two possibilities; my chamber was too tight due to a worn reamer, or my die wasn't sizing the cases correctly. I figured on the latter since I could still place a case into the die when I took out the expander ball. It would only size the neck, the body of the case wouldn't touch the body if the die. bought a Redding body die and solved the issue. It sized the cases like it was supposed to. I guess it took a few firings to expand the case enough to make it extract more difficult. Hope this helps.
     
  9. JeffVN

    JeffVN Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this before with my F-Class 7WSM and with a competitor's 7SAUM. We were both using brass that had between 3-4 firings (me) and 2-3 firings (him). Neither of us had trimmed the brass and it had begun to encroach into the lead. Chambered fine, but would not extract and showed pressure problems. If you have not check the length of your brass or trimmed recently, its well worth the time it takes to put a couple of pieces into a micrometer and look at the length.

    Jeffvn
     
  10. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so but the recommendations you're getting are similar if not the same.
     
  11. CogburnR

    CogburnR Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had any direct experience with the 338 Lapua but I think If I had this problem I would get a body die and try it.

    Redding Body Die 338 Lapua Mag
     
  12. LongRangeBangin

    LongRangeBangin Well-Known Member

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    Once fired brass measurement .200 up from extractor groove .584
    3-4 shot brass measurement .200 up from extractor groove .588
    (using calipers)
    * On a side note. Brass that was hard to extract, after I resize, chambers in the rifle as easy as new brass. But pull the trigger and it is now harder to extract then previous fire......

    Again I appreciate all the help on this.
     
  13. PantherCreekFarms

    PantherCreekFarms Active Member

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    What's the measurement on the extractor groove itself (if you can get your caliper in there and check new/ofb and compare? Other than a new full body die... don't laugh... but... what about a thin layer of EWG (Extreme Weapons Grease from SLIP2000)? I've never personally had this problem yet, but if I did everything else and you felt that the pressures were safe and it was just being a butt head on extracting, I might try a thin layer of EWG? I use that stuff on all my assault rifles and supposedly it can take a lot of pressures and temperature. I would think you would want a really thin layer of it (when I use it on my bolts and barrels, it only takes a very small amount and after it sits for about 10 minutes, you wipe it off and only a micro thin film is left in the metal). Slip 2000™ - EWL

    Of course if you can solve your problem via proper die adjustment, case and chamber condition. And if anyone thinks this is a bad suggestion, PLEASE speak up.

    I find that a little EWG in the surface of my barrel, gives me a little more velocity and keeps it from getting as dirty. SLIP2000 makes a lot of claims, that I have seen. Though they don't mention resolving extractor problems (that are not sizing/case problems), makes me wonder if it might help???

    Anyone else using EWG in their barrel or on their bolt?
     
  14. PantherCreekFarms

    PantherCreekFarms Active Member

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    Hey LRB...

    I was reading some other threads and came across a thread about why Norma brass was sticking and new Lapua brass didn't. At first it was a funny read, because to me Lapua brass is superior to Norma in my opinion. Anyway, you might want to read the thread: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/norma-338-lapua-brass-vs-lapua-hmmmm-36048/

    As it turns out, another member had the same problem and suggested that the Norma brass is softer and explains why he saw the sticking case problem sooner and that eventually the same thing would happen to the Lapua brass. Anyway he then explains what he did and some other things to try...

    Exerpt from the thread:
    I can tell you exactly what the problem is because I had the same thing happen with my 338Lapua Mag Imp.
    Your sizing die is not sizing the web area of your cases enough, the only reason it is happening on your Norma cases first is because they are softer than the Lapua cases but sooner or later it will happen to the Lapua cases too.
    The solution to this problem that I found was to have a custom reamer made and have my barrel cut off and re-chambered, if you dont want to go this extreme try a different sizing die that may size down the web area a bit more.
    UB