Steve Shelp, 338 is comming.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Nicholas, Aug 26, 2002.

  1. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve

    I finally ordered a 338 Lapua, from Priarie Gun Works on their Timberwolf action. I just couldn't give up on the repeater action. [​IMG] By the way magwell length is 3.75"

    I got a discount on it because it was a demo rifle. It comes with a 26 inch fluted Pac-Nor barrel with brake.

    I am wondering if I should put a new longer barrel in it now and have Dave ream it for the Yogi or if I will wait and shoot the standard Lapua 'til this barrel needs replacing then do it?

    I am supposed to get the rifle around the first of Nov.


    How is your Yogi shooting by the way????
     
  2. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    I know you got a good deal, I saw the pictures of it. My wife wouldn't let me get one [​IMG] , said I was buying too many toys.

    Oh well enjoy it for me I'll get my toys if I have to hold my breath until I turn blue [​IMG] .
     

  3. ktg

    ktg Well-Known Member

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    Do you mind sharing how good your deal was?
     
  4. titanium

    titanium Active Member

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    info is at www.prairiegunworks.com click on the left side that says "Timberwolf demo rifle sale". Thanks for the business SR 90!


    Steve
     
  5. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    You are very welcome Steve, can't wait to get the rifle. By the way how far have you successfully shot the 338 Lapua w/26" barrel in the Timberwolf rifles??? And what accuracy were you getting???

    Texas

    My wife is going to choke me until I turn blue.

    [ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: sr90 ]
     
  6. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    Sr90 are you going for the whole package or what? It's against the law to for a wife to choke her husband for buying a gun in Texas.

    So you and your TIMBERWOLF are more than welcome to move down here [​IMG] .
     
  7. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    You crack me up Texas. LOL

    I live in Utah and yes I am going for the whole package. [​IMG]

    Women will never understand [​IMG]
     
  8. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    SR90,
    Alright. About time you got a heavy hitter in your arsenal! [​IMG]

    As for the 26" barrel and rechambering.... that's a tough call. You've got a good rifle as is. Nothing wrong with a good 338 Lapua Mag. The 26" barrel would be limiting the Yogi sized case anyway for all out performance if you are going to use this for hunting right now. So you could be shooting and gaining a lot of knowledge from LR shooting as is and have plenty of horsepower.

    But the flip side of it is if you did have this barrel chambered, you could be fireforming 338 Yogi brass and doing load developement in this shorter barrel and have your loads somewhat sorted out, then you put a good longer barrel on it and go do some damage. Yes your velocities would be lower, but you could still see the trends and min/max variations of different powders in a short barrel anyway. So you could sort out 90% of your loading with this barrel. Then when you rebarreled with a longer tube with the 338 Yogi chambering you would play with neck tension, seating depth, and go up/down a little bit on your powder load to fine tune to your new barrel harmonic patterns. This would minimize wear and tear on the new barrel and you would have all of your brass already fireformed.

    So in simple terms it's really up to you.

    As ofr my Yogi, this summer has really sucked for shooting. Work has gone thorugh the roof and then the roof caved in (I work for WorldCom... please don't send flowers) so I missed several matches this summer. So the Yogi barrel has been idle. I've got my second switch-barrel (6.5x55AI) on the HG for our IBS National Championship match this weekend. It has shown great promise, so were going to ride this horse for awhile. Got the Yogi barrel set aside, to be screwed back on when I get the time to sort it out again. I lsot the tune on it and din't have tme to regroup. The 6.5 barrel doesn't seem to be as picky. 2nd group on out it was 6.9" 10 shots at 1000yd. And that was all vertical. I put 2" of vertical in the group by not adjsuting my rest. I was simply testing even though it was in competition. So I just wanted 10 shots as quick/accuractley as possible, so I didn't take the time to adjust the vertical in my rest. So I would've ended up around 5" group without the "extra" vertical. We'll see.......

    Steve
     
  9. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    I think I will leave it as is for a while.

    When you fireform the Yogi brass how do you do it, do you actually fire a live round and how big is the charge?
     
  10. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    Steve

    How much velocity do you think I would gain if I made the current 26 inch barrel a Yogi?
     
  11. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    SR90,
    First I need to explain that this is the method I use and it comes with a warning and I'm sure others are going to speak up in very strong words saying "if you do that you are going to blow your head off". I've been there done that on other lists and boards. Just so your aware, myself and many others use this method with great success from known gunsmiths, to serious and not so serious shooters. Yes it increases the bolt thrust somewhat but as long as your not pushing the pressures to begin with you'll be just fine. I've used this method on factory, Mauser, and custom BR actions alike.
    Also I only use this particular method when blowing shoulders forward and the cartridge essentially doesn't headspace until it is fire formed.
    When forming an Ackley shoulder, changing the shoulder angle, or blowing out body taper where the case headspaces somewhere before fire forming...... I use Red Dot powder, cornmeal settled in, and a wad of sh!tpaper to hold it in against the powder/primer good and tight. Chamber it a bang out the back window. You have a formed case without firing a bullet.

    Blowing a shoulder forward method (for the Yogi case)
    First off, I use almost full power loads. The reasoning here is, if it's not fully formed the first firing and you don't anneal afterward before firing again, it works the brass that much harder the second time. Can't put hard and fast numbers on this but I believe I have less case failures during fire forming going all the way the first time. In my original batch of 100 Lapua cases and the 60 or so Norma case I've formed in my 338 Yogi I didn't have a single failure on the first firing. I still have 93 or 94 of the original 100 Lapua case left with over 20 firings on them. More on this later.
    Back to loads for forming.... Normally I just back off a grain or 2 and use them for my first couple of spotter rounds during competition so the round isn't actually wasted. Or the first round out of a cold/clean barrel which is a throw-away shot anyway. So when my brass gets quite few firings on them I'll order a new box of brass and prep it and slowly get it all fire formed 1 or 2 at a time, so when the old brass finally gives out (haven't reached that point yet with the Lapua stuff) your ready to go with the new once fired fully formed brass.

    The second and most controversial thing I do is put a very light coating (can't stress how light is light here) of imperial sizing die wax on the body and neck of the cases just before firing. Just enough lube to put a shine on your finger tips. Then just spin the case body and neck inside of your fingers. The bullets are also seated out long with tight neck tension, to help keep the case pushed back initially, but once the primer is dented that method of holding the case back is no longer valid. I do it to make sure the primer is hit hard enough to fire because at this point your not headspaces at all on the case. The lube on the case stops the case from griping the chamber walls that very short period of time and stretching the case head back against the bolt face while the case body is still expanded out and gripping the chamber. With the light lube on it the whole case body gets setback against the bolt face and reduces stretching which in turn reduces stress, which gives you longer case life.
    As a note I was able to somewhat prove this method without knowing it at the time. When forming some rounds once while testing at the NC 1000yd range, I forgot to pre-lube my cases. Well they fired and formed fine and didn't see any difference at the time. I was also unaware that I forgot to pre-lube at this point. I took them back home for match prepping the final time and put into my match case rotation. When I trimmed them I noticed the cut was really heavy on this particular batch of 10 cases. I measured the remaining cases and they were approx .010" -.012" longer than any of my other cases I've ever fire formed using this method. That's when it hit me that I forgot to pre-lubed them, because my can of die wax wasn't in my shooting box but on my loading bench. But at this point it still wasn't a problem until I started firing those cases. I had a split case on the 5th firing of one of those cases a month or so later. I figured... hey one case split out of all of these is no big deal. In the next 2 or 3 matches I ended up with 2 more split cases around the shoulder area. Now my curiosity was peaked. I number all of my cases so I know when they were fired and how many times exactly. All of those cases were out of that batch of 10 un-lubed cases. I have only lost one other case to neck splitting from the other 90 cases that were formed using the lubed method. But now 4 of the 10 un-lubed cases are retired due to splitting/cracking. I only use that batch for first sighters now in case one splits on firing and that shot drops out of the group, I don't want that in the middle of a record string in competition.

    So the longer cases of .010" to .012" tells me that brass stretched that much without the lube in one firing. It had to come from somewhere. So to sum this up, other than the lubing and seating the bullet out, it 's a normal round minus 1 grain for me and you have a fully formed case.

    Hope this helps, and you do as you see fit for safety reasons,

    Good luck with your new toy. They are fun! Nothing like firing this 338 and watching the impact at 1000yds into the dirt bank. The difference between that 300 gr bullet as compared to even the 30s, 6.5s and 6mm bullets..... no comparison.

    Steve
     
  12. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    sr90,
    I would be guessing. It would go up some I would say, but it would be negligable IMO.

    I think I would stay with your original thought of staying with what you have until you get longer barrel. I'll ask Dave Tooley if he built any Yogis on shorter barrels and if so what velocities did they report they were getting. I'm rooming with him for this weekends IBS National Championship match. If you happen to be "in the east" this weekend and interested in drinking a few beverages and BSing about guns, Dave and I are usually are up for it! [​IMG] It wouldn't be the first time someone has driven us back to the hotel after "being out on the town" on a match weekend. [​IMG]

    Talk to you later!
    Steve
     
  13. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    Steve sorry to hear that someone told you the world was flat [​IMG] . Columbus proved them wrong and I'm sure you'll find a way to blow it up again [​IMG] .

    Now I keep hearing about this yogi,what is it? Haven't found anything in books about it, need imput.
     
  14. Nicholas

    Nicholas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info Steve

    I would really appreciate it if you asked Dave for me.

    I wish I could hang out with you guys but I am in Utah. By the way I'm going bow hunting this weekend for mulies. [​IMG]

    Texas

    The 338 Yogi is a 338 Lapua Improved (IMP)