Steel pillars to action fit?

[cohunt]

I totally understand the harmonics/layers thing ---- did some sound mitigation for a bit, and learned that the more layers with different densities of materials, the more it would reduce those sound waves-- you dint need thick, just milti-layer/multi-density materials-- sound waves are just another form of energy waves like what transfers back through a barrel/stock so I can see how it could help as long as you can get repeat-ability/consistency with your action screw torque

JEC-- I never thought of laminate stocks like that before, but once again--multi-layer/multi-density would break up the energy wave within the stock

 

[J E Custom]

I totally understand the harmonics/layers thing ---- did some sound mitigation for a bit, and learned that the more layers with different densities of materials, the more it would reduce those sound waves-- you dint need thick, just milti-layer/multi-density materials-- sound waves are just another form of energy waves like what transfers back through a barrel/stock so I can see how it could help as long as you can get repeat-ability/consistency with your action screw torque

JEC-- I never thought of laminate stocks like that before, but once again--multi-layer/multi-density would break up the energy wave within the stock

It has been my experience that Laminated stocks resonated less sound to my cheek and right ear than composite stocks do in most cases. I had one compost stock that each time it fired I could hear a coil spring noise that was coming from somewhere and decided to change the stock Just to see if it would eliminate the noise. The rifle shot very well so i didn't want to alter it and kept the stock as it was, and try a laminated stock to see if this theory had any validity. It did stop the sound and actually improved the accuracy buy a small amount. Was it a better stock, or was it a better bedding job? hard to tell. But if it dampened the harmonics That could be the reason because the lower the harmonics, the more consistency you get shot to shot.

PS: I have sense replaced most of my long range rifles with laminated stocks and accuracy has improved on every one of them by some degree.

Just my experiences.

J E CUSTOM

 

[jarnold37]

I've always done it the same way as you. I was curious after a benchrest shooter said "you don't want pillars touching at all. You want .030" of clearance and let the bedding fill the gap". Didn't make sense to me, but I hadn't tried it.

I actually bed bdl bm first, so the floor plate opens on CA stocks freely. Manners it doesn't matter.

Just wondering, if steel or aluminum pillars are installed and then glass bedded, when the bedding compound shrinks most of the support is on those small pillars. I have had best luck pouring pillars .625 the same time as the bedding. It all shrinks uniformly not leaving action supported by only two pillars

 

[Mram10us]

Just wondering, if steel or aluminum pillars are installed and then glass bedded, when the bedding compound shrinks most of the support is on those small pillars. I have had best luck pouring pillars .625 the same time as the bedding. It all shrinks uniformly not leaving action supported by only two pillars

Like you, I've poured pillars for small calibers but never on my bigger stuff. What's your experience with bigger stuff?
I use devcon steel and it shrinks .0006" per inch. I am guessing that when skim bedding less than .100", that amount of shrinkage is almost undetectable. Just thinking out loud.

 

[J E Custom]

Just wondering, if steel or aluminum pillars are installed and then glass bedded, when the bedding compound shrinks most of the support is on those small pillars. I have had best luck pouring pillars .625 the same time as the bedding. It all shrinks uniformly not leaving action supported by only two pillars

Another good question and the reason I use bedding compounds that doesn't heat up during curing (3 to 4 hour pot life) If bedding shrinks, the barreled actions can be removed easy by just removing the action screws. If it does/did not shrink, You have to work to get it out (It does not just fall out.

I have not seen any shrinkage when I use matching materials for the pillars personally.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Andrew Cowling]

In my opinion, a pillar should be touching the receiver and the floor metal. Metal to metal to metal. The choice of materials for the pillars ar up to you but i recommend a material that has a very low expansion rate so it changes with the receiver. I like to use stainless or chrome molly depending on the receiver materiel. but for durability in bad weather I just use stainless.

Can't say what shape is best to use on the contact area of the receiver, but I do like the pillar shaped the same radius as the receiver (I use a mill for this but if you dont have a mill flat is ok but you don't get as big of a footprint.

Gaping the pillar defeats the purpose of the pillar by using a compressible material Even though most bedding materials are very hard they can compress, loose torque and not return to the original position after long periods of time. and cause a shift in the POI and also render a stress free bedding useless.

Just My opinion

J E CUSTOM

I do exactly the same with the exception of only squared pillers. Metal to metal with stainless steel rod. All my rifles are done like this. I use the same process on clients guns.
I have found that hunting rigs have benefited from pillar bedding with some showing massive improvement in sustained accuracy.

 

[Edd]

Another good question and the reason I use bedding compounds that doesn't heat up during curing (3 to 4 hour pot life) If bedding shrinks, the barreled actions can be removed easy by just removing the action screws. If it does/did not shrink, You have to work to get it out (It does not just fall out.

I have not seen any shrinkage when I use matching materials for the pillars personally.

J E CUSTOM

What bedding compounds have a 3-4 hour pot life?

 

[Andrew Cowling]

It has been my experience that Laminated stocks resonated less sound to my cheek and right ear than composite stocks do in most cases. I had one compost stock that each time it fired I could hear a coil spring noise that was coming from somewhere and decided to change the stock Just to see if it would eliminate the noise. The rifle shot very well so i didn't want to alter it and kept the stock as it was, and try a laminated stock to see if this theory had any validity. It did stop the sound and actually improved the accuracy buy a small amount. Was it a better stock, or was it a better bedding job? hard to tell. But if it dampened the harmonics That could be the reason because the lower the harmonics, the more consistency you get shot to shot.

PS: I have sense replaced most of my long range rifles with laminated stocks and accuracy has improved on every one of them by some degree.

Just my experiences.

J E CUSTOM

Man! Are you my long lost twin?? Haha
I have done exacly the same thing with all of my long range target rifles bar 1 which has a beautiful dense black walnut stock on it.
Most of my hunting rifles have a laminated stocks bar one that sports a synthetic stock. The synthetic stocked rifle got a dose of stainless pillars and bedding and it shoots one hole groups all day long.

 

[okie man]

What about the material used for the pillar? Does it have any say in how you bed it? Skim, no skim. Start talking about different materials expanding/contracting at different rates. I know Christensen uses a material that is said to resist changes in size from temp change.

 

[J E Custom]

What bedding compounds have a 3-4 hour pot life?

Steel bed and pro bed 2000 if done inside in ambient temps. On some projects If I set it out in the sun it will be well on its way in 2 to 3 hours. I do this for pillars when I don't want to wait over night for it to totally harden.

I am sure that there are others but these are the ones I use and like.

J E CUSTOM

 

[bigngreen]

An action has large surface area, in a proper bedding job the pillars are really just to support the bottom metal and screws so they don't compress from the bottom up. When we go metal to metal we've negated the reason for bedding to simply torque management and the action really just sits on the two pillars and the bedding is for looks.
Much of this is about shooting in the 1's and 2's at a thousand yards not at 100,300 or of a bipod but it's good to be aware the minutia.
I've used most bedding material and I still like Devcon and MarineTex, the ideal would be a thinner Devcon IMO but I bed tight enough I use an action jack to remove the barreled action from the stock square and spreading the pull. I have to press the action back in and no need for screws to hold it together.

 

[Tiny Tim]

One stock maker (can't remember which) cuts their pillars approximately. 030-.035 short so as to provide a "perfect" action to stock bedding. Which is better I am unqualified to say. But making them from a material with the same thermal expansion characteristics as the action can only be a benefit.
Good thought provoking comments in this thread for sure.

 

[Philward]

I used some stainless tubing I scrounged from work for pillars, tubing contacts the bottom metal and action front and rear with bedding all around plus 4 inches up the barrel. I like how the action screws thread in easy and just stop like mentioned before. It was something I wanted to try after being a couple other rifles the normal way, one being a Ruger m77. A bit of a pain getting that front screw signed correctly and action bedded right. From the layman amateur perspective at least.