Starting out Caliber suggestions and advice.

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Lead_Farmer, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    Hi i am new and woundering what cartridges out there are good for 1000yd shots and beyond for hunting Elk.

    Cartridge requirments

    1: Easily available
    2: Not alot of recoil

    Want to make a Customs Stevens 200 for this but i will need help on action choice fro the caliber and which one of the rifles you would convert.lightbulb
     
  2. 7mmpoppy

    7mmpoppy Active Member

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    First i would ask, new to the forum or new to shooting 1000 yds?
    next if you are recoil shy, you might want to think about getting closer to the elk
    and shoot something doable. Recoil is not something to be thinking about when
    you are shooting at something that bleeds at beyond "your comfortable range".
    If going forward...... I shoot a 7mm rum, for everything. just because I like the point blank range. It and the other ultramags, in my humble opinion, "push"
    you a good bit but I will shoot it more than my 30-06,.270, or .300win mag,
    because they "kick". One shot at game you feel nothing, but it takes more than a couple rounds to get proficient at "long range".
    much more to do with subject, I'm sure you will get the answers you want right here on LRH. A great bunch of people sharing a world of knowledge.
    (7mmultramag):D
     

  3. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    I realized the recoil thing was a bit ironic. I looked at the 300 Winchester mag i can pick one up used but what would i need to make it accurate besides trigger time a good bedding job. i knowi need a better barrel but what brands websites i want one with a good muzzle brake.
     
  4. 7mmpoppy

    7mmpoppy Active Member

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    Sounds like price is a factor, I know the feeling. Make friends with a competent gunsmith and follow your goals/wallet to the best you can afford.
    I am a timney trigger guy.... ford vs chevy.....
    start with that and a bedded action, free floated barrel, shoot,shoot, then shoot some more! my rifle is factory rem. I got lucky with a good shooter.
    it's more about confidence through practice than a big price tag or fancy labels.
    good luck and have fun..... gun)I'm just a hillbilly that loves to chat about this stuff, keep tuning in and the experts will be along shortly, some pretty smart
    people tune in here and are willing to help.
    p.s. New recoil reducing stock from blackhawk? just starting to look into it, just a suggestion, I personally hate muzzle brakes though I guess they have there place!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  5. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Well for what its worth I think it can be done, but things you are going to have to consider. A long action will be a must. I saw that you have access to a 300 Win. Mag. This will be a great starter caliber. I would suggest that you look into a muzzle break. As far as barrel manufacturer, there are many to choose from. Most used on this site are Hart, Brux, Lilja, Broughten and Shilen. There a few more that are slipping my mind at the moment.

    You will want to look into an aftermarket stock such as the Bell & Carlson, Manners, Choate, and McMillian. The B&C and Choate are going to be your lesser priced stocks, but offer a superior upgrade to the factory stock. They can be had for $150 to $300. Like poppy said, triggers are a ford vs chevy thing. Timney, and rifle basix are good triggers to look into. Good muzzle breaks to consider are, JP brakes, Vias breaks, APS from Kirby (recommended), muscle break (recommended), and one made by Shawn Carlock of defensive edge (recommended) that the name eludes me right now.

    I am an avid fan of the 300 mags. It is my opinion that with the right set up and load the 300 Win Mag can be a legitimate 1K to 1200yrd elk rifle. It will allow you to push a 208 A-Max or 210 grn bullet to 3000 plus feet per second. This coupled with the altitude that elk are generally harvested will allow you to use this caliber.

    Another caliber option that will work well and a little more suitable would be the 300RUM and 338RUM. The 300 RUM will run 210grn bullets up to 3200fps and the 338 will push a 300 SMK to 2850+ which both are plenty to take elk at distance with. These will have more recoil, but will allow you to handle it well with a good muzzle break installed. At those distances you will have time to put on hearing protection so the break doesn't blow your ear drums.

    Those are my thoughts, so take it for what its worth. I am a huge Savage fan. I think that the Mod 111 Long Range Hunter in either 338 Win Mag or 300 Win Mag would be a great purchase in place of the Stevens. Make sure you show us pictures when you are done with your project.

    Tank
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  6. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    It will be a while but the more info i get the closer i get to the build thinks all. Gone go use my google FOO.
     
  7. Chopaka81

    Chopaka81 Well-Known Member

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    When you throw 1000+ yd elk into the mix, you enter the relm of high intensity recoil, heed 'tanks advise.

    I shoot a 300 RUM, 28"bbl + a 2" muzzle break for 30" total. My rifle has a Benchmark barrel, varmint (sendero) contour, fluted, and it shoots the Hornady 208gr AMAX at 3200 fps into nice tight groups.

    If I was building a 1000+ yd elk rifle I would look seriously at the big 338's, most of which will be too large for the Stevens action.

    The 300 Win Mag is a great get you going rifle.

    One of the reality based hunting lessons learned is that my rifle is limited by my Nikon 1200 yd laser range finder - it is only good to 800 yds in real world hunting conditions. Right now I am saving my pennies in hopes of picking up a Swaroski LRF that actually works to the published range.

    If you connect the dots, buying a economically priced 300 Win Mag and a Nikon LRF, would be a good way to get started out to 800 or 1000 yds, you will be able to build experience, and then settle on a true LRH package that will last you for years.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    IMO the 30 cals are the way to go.

    I am a strong advocate of the 300 WSM. It can be had in a short action vs a long action RUM or 300 Win Mag.

    It will run a 180-200 just behind the Win mag and less than 100 fps difference under worst circumstances and mostly very very close. THe WSM shines with the 180-190 gr bullets and those are more than enough. RL 17, and H4350 with standard LR primers

    It has 2-3x the barrel life as a minimum and practice is the key in LR shooting.

    Just change bolt heads on the 200 and go for it if you want to use yours.

    However, my first choice would be to go to Fred Moro at Sharp Shooter Supply as he stocks timed and tuned actions already to go, plus chambered barrels and stocks so you can put together a really great shooting gun for much less than some others and faster.

    Look at www.savageshooters.com forums also for info on all savages and maybe even barrels and guns ready to go for a good price.

    Darrell Holland sells the Holland Radial brake that is absolutly great for recoil, but with the WSM I would not use one. If I went the RUM route, get one for sure.

    BH
     
  9. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    Why are Actions so expensive? and do all barrels have universal threads.
     
  10. Chopaka81

    Chopaka81 Well-Known Member

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    Great Questions.

    RE: Why are actions so expensive?
    It is kinda like asking why are heart transplants so expensive? Without a good heart, a rifle is just so-so.
    Also insurance for a heart surgeon is really high - same for gunsmiths and manufactures making actions. They have to be proofed by a P.E. metalergist, the P.E.'s insurance is expensive too.

    RE: Are Barrel Threads the same?
    Don't all of us wish that was the case. Unfortunately some are metric, some are standard (inches).

    Perhaps a "real"gunsmith will chime in.
     
  11. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    So 300 Win super mag bettter then the standerd 300 win mag? I think i want to build a rifle from scratch so what websites are there to do this so i avoid the crap sites. also what will i need?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  12. Chopaka81

    Chopaka81 Well-Known Member

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    If you want a simple economical build stick with a stand 300 Win Mag. If you want a higher level of performance look and 300 Remington Ultra Mag.

    There are wildcats out there that use the 416 Rigby and 338 Lapua cartiridges necked down to 30 cal.

    The Savage Rifle lends itself to do it yourself barrel swapping and etc.

    Bounty Hunter gave you some good advise too. Check out the savage shooters web site. There is a lot of info that you will find most helpful.
     
  13. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    If you want to build from scratch, get a hold of one of the sponsor smiths here on this site. They will help you get what will be right for you and your needs.

    Steve
     
  14. Lead_Farmer

    Lead_Farmer Active Member

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    ight thinks.