spotting scope question

Discussion in 'Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)' started by Pb5320, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Pb5320

    Pb5320 Member

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    My question is what if any spotting scope will spot hits at 1500yds? I am shooting in north florida and the mirage is a killer. All I have now is the cheaper stuff and it is good enough for 1000 but every scope or spotting scope i have access to will not get the job done even when humidity is low. Thanks for any help
     
  2. kass

    kass Well-Known Member

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    I mostly use a Kowa TSN 661 (45°) with a 25x LER eyepiece. Clear, a little too much for finding furry targets at lesser distances. Our humidity levels most of the year are going to hurt you to some degree no matter which scope you use. I have found that higher quality/lower power in a scope works for me.
     

  3. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    eastern hunters/shooters face more issues than do western hunters/shooters
    due to air clarity caused by humidity.
    we could argue for a month over which scope is best. fact is the most expensive scopes wont perform well on (HIGHER) power either when the humidity factor is high. the only answer is to lower the power in order to obtain a clearer image regardless of scope or objective size.
    air quality will make spotting hits at very long distances even more difficult.
    in some places like pa for example, counting points on antlers is a requirment.
    that adds even another issue to the dilemma.
    good eyepieces and not necessarily the most expensive scope can be very helpfull. unfortunitly many scope manufacturers today only offer zoom eyepieces.
    certainly some will challenge me. i would ask if theyve ever done a
    side by side test under poor conditions with numerous scopes and eyepieces at the same time.
    we have, and the answer is none work well especially on higher powers
    with high humidity.
    you will hear some say they can see bullet holes in a target at 1000 yds with their scope.
    i will say yes you can in the white part not the black part and only on some days.
    and on those days others with different scopes did also didnt they?
     
  4. mike33

    mike33 Well-Known Member

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    I like my Kowa Highlanders
     
  5. drbill

    drbill Well-Known Member

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    1+

    I like a higher quality and lower power extended eye relief as well. They make different eyepieces for some of the quality ones. So if you had to you could "pack" a second one with and switch if needed. I like the angled ones but I made a "mistake" for me and bought a straight one. Each guy likes each kind. Kinda depends on use and preference. I think im going to possibly trade up to an angled Kowa. Seems likes lots of guys like them. Maybe Ill get skinned saying that but just my observations.
     
  6. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    not much one could disslike about those mike. ive spent a fair ammount of time looking thru those also. how long have you had them and from whom did you buy?

    as for angled spotting scopes remember they cant be mounted in pairs in a bracket. that due to inter eye adjustment and alignment issues. if your intentions are to always use it as a single thats fine.
    the highlanders are a different animal in that regard. they adjust for that same as the old battleship binnocs.
     
  7. kass

    kass Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Yobuck I am disagreeing with only one of your statements to satisfy my developing OCD. Angled eyepiece scopes can and are paired up to form "big eye" systems. I have a set that I use for extended long range viewing, they allow better field of view, making it very easy to notice movement and detail,they allow longer and easier days of use by lessening "brain strain" on my eyes. That said, they are a pain in the ASS to setup, normally are only then " right" for that person and then are easy to bump out of adjustment I would recommend them only to the "varmint shooter" types that "set-up" and overview large areas.
     
  8. RDM416

    RDM416 Well-Known Member

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    Bullet holes at 1500? That is a pretty tall order! I have an 85mm 60X Zeiss and have time sitting behind the 80mm Swarovski as well. On a clear day when the light is just right I can see holes at 700-800. At distances further than that you simply don't have the ability to resolve detail that small, then you also have mirage and air quality to deal with. Can the military do it, probably.... Can it be done with even high end spotting scopes. I doubt it.
     
  9. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    which goes to show there is always an exception kass.
    by and large however angled scopes wont work well for twin applications.
    you didnt mention the size of your objectives which could compound the problem.
    none of these things are built for that purpose, some are easier to work with than others however due to size and shape. by rotating the scopes in the bracket a normal range of inter pupil distance can be obtained. then the bracket adjustment can allow for use by different individuals. normaly movment like this would have little to no affect on the alignment of the tubes. that can vary however depending on bracket quality. it would seem the same should be true while using both straight or angled tubes. but it isnt.

    as you stated yours are a one person set. if another person with even a slightly different ipd readjusts them for their eyes they will be out of alignment. if they were mine id be locking them for your eyes only.
     
  10. kass

    kass Well-Known Member

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    I hit them with a stick then make them use my single kowa.
     
  11. wwbrown

    wwbrown Active Member

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    It is not just the spotting scope and how good the optics are or how much magnification there is the mirage or as optical scientists call it turbulence is a limiting factor on how small an object you can see at a given distance. Think about this, when the mirage is running heavy you may have a hard time seeing the X-ring much less a bullet hole. The limit on seeing bullet hole-sized objects at sea level is somewhere around 600-800 yards. That is why sometimes you can see holes in the target at 600 in the AM but as soon as the sun hits the ground and starts to heat up you no longer can.

    If anyone says they have a spotting scope that will see bullet holes at 1,500 yards they are blowing smoke. The Army does not have scopes that they can carry into the field that can either, they have to fight the same turbulence that we do.

    If you see an ad for a scope that says it will eliminate the mirage run away fast as they are trying to sell you a load a crap, there are ways of reducing its effects but nothing that will currently fit into a rifle scope. CounterSniper brand of scopes makes just such a claim along with quite a few others that are of similar truths kind of a fun web page to look at until you realize that some people believe the lies and spend good money on ...

    I could go into excruciating detail about the process and ways of mitigating it but would bore and annoy everyone, suffice it to say that the limiting factor in seeing bullet holes at ranges beyond 600 yards is the atmosphere and not necessarily the optics.

    wade
     
  12. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    i think the original question was about seeing HITS at extreme distance and not necessarily bullet holes.
    theres a big difference.
    that said mirage or moist air can have serious impacts on seeing hits way out there also.
    for that matter a perfectly clear day with more than a few inches of snow isnt good either for seeing hits on the very long shots.
    spending big bucks on better optics wont fix that.
     
  13. Pb5320

    Pb5320 Member

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    yobuck, you got it right. What I am looking to see is hits on a steel plat that is painted bright orange with white targets about 15'' in size. It is a BIG plate but we still end up have to go check for groups which takes 20-30 min round trip. We would rather be shooting than riding.

    hey guys off topic where can I find the best info on range finding with mil-dots? Thanks for the help as I have only been shooting long range for less than a year... Dang this is expensive, but ALOT of fun.
     
  14. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    Try doing a search on using a remote camera that feeds the image back to your shooting location.