Spotting hits - is it even possible

Discussion in 'Specialty Handgun Hunting' started by Len Backus, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    I am planning a 6.5 WSM project on an XP action. I am pondering component choices that may enable me to spot hits on game while hunting. Recoil is a factor and can be reduced by using a heavier barrel. But the video of Dan's XP in 7 WSM shows so much upward flip of the barrel...and downward flip of the scope's ocular lens...that I wonder if my goal is achieveable at any weight.

    Here is a link to a video showing the muzzle flip of Dan's gun.

    Dan's XP recoil video

    You can play the video back in slow motion by dragging the play button back and forth at the exact moment of ignition.

    Now, here is a picture of my borrowed (yotefever) XP with rear grip stock. Dan's has a center grip. Mechanical engineering school is a very distant memory for me...but wouldn't a rear grip result in less muzzle flip? And almost regardless, in Dan's video there is so much downward flip of the scope that I wonder how you'd ever get enough recoil reduction through a heavier barrel to result in the ability to spot hits.

    [​IMG]

    PS: I'll be using a rifle scope, so reducing recoil is important also for the reason that I'd like to not worry about injuring myself. I have little experience with an LER scope but it seems you'd be better able to spot hits with a rifle scope than with an LER scope. Any comments on that?
     
  2. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that you can make what you want to happen, happen. Way to much energy to tame. How can anyone hope to achieve straight line recoil, with any stock design where the hand is the only stop? Think for a moment of the AR's and how that design makes for straight recoil.
     

  3. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Len,
    Steve and I video taped my 7mm dakota XP and even though the recoil is light, the muzzle raises enough to make it impossible to spot my shots.
    I think there is a chance you may be able to spot some shots at long range but I don't think it will be like what you can do with a rifle.
    If you rested your off hand on top of the scope it may make it more possible but then you are limited in adjustment.
    I have never made this a goal, so I feel like a fish out of the water on this question.
    I do think it is possible to tune a brake to almost reduce all muzzle flip but then it will be coming straight back toward your face and I don't think you want that with a rifle scope.
     
  4. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    I do think it would be a lot easier to control the muzzle flip if a stock was made with the pistol grip ahead of the action or at least even with the receiver ring. A back sweep pistol grip, more along the angle of the AR's, would also be a help. Of course the trigger would be a nightmare, but what the heck. I did make these suggestion to a stockmaker yesterday who is looking to do a pistol stock for his line. Maybe the forum would like to add there input to him on what it would take? Just a thought anyway!
     
  5. sscoyote

    sscoyote Well-Known Member

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    Gonna be interesting to see that design 3. Len even my little 7 lb. .17 MIV XP isn't enuf weight to totally eliminate recoil even with the 25 gr. bullets, but if i'm after extreme accuracy my handguns always have rifle scopes on them.
     
  6. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    Only way you'll be able to spot hits on game is to look through a spotting scope while someone else shoots your pistol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    db
     
  7. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    db, that's really funny!
     
  8. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    A local smith was into silhouette 30 years ago. He built many longrange hand rifles. He was discouraged from competative shooting due to the fact of blowing holes through the steel targets, clubs are usually closed minded about things like that. You would have thought this would have ended his handgun adventure...it only encouraged him. He kept building more powerful handguns. He has finally ended his persuit of power due to his age, almost 80, but he did build several 50 cal. blasters that were a hazard to shoot. He based his 50s on the 378/416 Wby and launched a 750gr bullet at hand numbing velocity. It was always a treat to visit his shop and find a sucker I mean a customer at the bench ready to touch one off. Even with a LER scope Bob would remind them to stay back from the scope. After the third reminder, you were on your own. I had one of his XPs in 7mm08. Finally sold it. Just got tired of shearing off mounting screws and cracking stocks. The last of the big ones Bob built were stocked in rear handled aluminum. End of story. If you need someone to operate your pistol while you spot the hit, let me know. Happy Thanksgiving Len.
    db
     
  9. yotefever

    yotefever Well-Known Member

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    Let me know if you want a spotter Len, I'll be glad to. I'll bring my camera along too, pictures are all I have for the last two days of hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Got some beautiful sunrise shots today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    Back at it tomorrow in the Northern Kettle Moraine SF. At least I can shoot coyotes down here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    db, thanks for the offer!

    yotefever

    I bloodied your gun on a 2 yr-old buck and a fat doe so far. I'm driving over for the morning hunt right now. We'll talk soon.
     
  11. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Len,
    Congrats on your first SP kills.
     
  12. Tom Brush

    Tom Brush Well-Known Member

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    Len:

    I have some experience with heavy barreled XP100's. I wanted to see my hits on groundhogs and prairie dogs so I took a 6BR chambered Heavy Varmint benchrest barrel, cut it off to 15" and screwed it on the XP. I was sure it would work. It did not. I still get muzzle flip and cannot see the hits. My XP has a rear grip McMillan stock with a low profile Rifle Basix trigger.

    Tom
     
  13. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Ernie, thanks.

    Tom, I'd like to calculate your recoil. How much does your rig weigh with scope. What is your bullet weight, velocity and powder weight, please.
     
  14. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    I can see my hits with my 338 lapua imp 18 pounds hand gun shooting 300g SMK at 2720 fps out of a 18" barrel with a brake. It has a 8.5x25x50 LRT leupold that has been busted to 20x50.