Spend on a Ruger M77MKII or start over

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Chesapeake, Apr 10, 2006.

  1. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    I'm just getting into coyote, long range hunting. My objective is to have 1 rifle good for elk, deer, and coyote out to 600 yards or so.

    Im thinking along the lines of a 8 - 10 lb rifle w/optics that shoots a 30 cal. (300 wsm, wm) bullet at 1 MOA or less.

    I curently own a Ruger M77 MKII bone stock purchased in 95 or so with probably 200 rounds through it. Overall good condition. Bare minimum it will need a stock(I hate the stock and recoil pad). No I dont know how it shoots as far as minimum posible group size. I can shoot 1.5 groups without much effort at 100 yrds but never realy tried for better. Remember I'm new to this long range stuff. My forte is muzzle stuffers.

    My question is: What are your opinions on working with this rifle or just starting over?

    My budget is 1k or preferably less.

    I was thinking of the Weatherby Vanguard SUB MOA as a starting over point. What are your thoughts on this rifle.

    Thanks,

    Rick
     
  2. youarenotcrazy

    youarenotcrazy Well-Known Member

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    What caliber is the Ruger you currently own? If that's a .300 WM or the likes, there's a good chance it would do what you wanted with perhaps some trigger work and a "new stock" to meet your preference. If you handload, it's likely you will find a load that will give you acceptable accuracy as is for out to 600 yards with plenty of umpfh for elk. If you shoot factory ammo, "get serious" and many different brands for accuracy. 100 yards groups are pretty, but 2,3,400 yard groups are a LOT more informative.
     

  3. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    Oops! Forgot some important info. The rifle is chambered for 300 win Mag.

    Yes I agree it is likely this rifle will perform to my current standards. Im just thinking that this rifle is limited in potential and aftermarket support. Of course the Weatherby Vanguard is probably in much the same catagory.

    The lack of interest in these guns concerns me a little.

    Rick
     
  4. preacherman

    preacherman Well-Known Member

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    ...the "potential" you speak of will usually favor the Remington 700 & Savages are also popular; by far the most popular action to build on and for all the right reasons, is the Rem 700; good solid design, most any gunsmith will be familiar with this action & anything you could ask for in the aftermarket... hope this helps, Larry
     
  5. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If you shoot factory ammo, "get serious" and many different brands for accuracy.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I dont entirely understand this sentance. Are you trying to say I must reload to get good accuracy, or just saying to try many different factory loads?
     
  6. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    A 300 Wn should be good way past 600yds if you and the gun and the ammo are capable.
    First thing to do is to "get serious" about seeing what you and your current gun will do. Generally, it is said that there is a three legged stool supporting accuracy - the gun - the shooter- and the ammo. Go buy beg borrow or steal different brands and loadings of different brands of ammo and really concentrate on trying to get good groups and find which ammo the gun likes. If the gun will shoot one inch groups at 100 yds then you are in business.
    The kill zone on most every thing except the scrawny ole coyote is way bigger than six inches at six hundred yards.

    Once you get the gun shooting well you might spend a little money getting a trigger job and a crown - that's about $100. You might have some fun and bed the action yourself and then take it back to the gunsmith for him to straighten out what you screwed up.

    After that you might think about what optics you have on it and whether you need something better.

    After that you can just admit up front you want a custom gun.

    People may be a little surprised at your statement "never tried for anythng better" being as most of us are constantly trying for something better. A custom gun does not replace effort to acheive accuracy. This is sometimes known as practice.
     
  7. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    People may be a little surprised at your statement "never tried for anythng better" being as most of us are constantly trying for something better. A custom gun does not replace effort to acheive accuracy. This is sometimes known as practice.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I didnt mean to imply that I'm not familiar with accuracy and striving to do better. I know about working up loads, accuracy, trajectories, velocity, ballistic coeficiants(sp?), triggers, powder grains, primers, and my part in the equasion. The difference is I use this info in the quest for accuracy with a muzzleloader with open sights. This is purely a short range low velocity affair but uses all or most of the same basic pricipals. Its in the details, and modern rifles have quite a few more details to contend with.

    Recently I started hunting with a friend that uses an HS precision 300 WSM and a custom built 300 RUM with carbon wrappped barrel. He has sparked my interest in modern rifles and I am thinking of dusting off the 300 and giving it a go. Im just wondering if this is a decent start given my small budjet, or if I should cut my losses and start over?

    It sounds like it all depends on how the rifle shoots now, so I think I will start there and see what I have.

    I searched the net and Midway for a replacement stock. It seems the choices are few and far between for a Ruger M77 MKII. Any suggestions? Midway lists a Bell and Carlson and a Ramline. The B&C needs a modified recoil lug for the magnum. The Ramline is a drop in. They are both on the cheep side but the only option I have found so far.
     
  8. 1doug

    1doug Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I searched the net and Midway for a replacement stock. It seems the choices are few and far between for a Ruger M77 MKII. Any suggestions? Midway lists a Bell and Carlson and a Ramline. The B&C needs a modified recoil lug for the magnum. The Ramline is a drop in. They are both on the cheep side but the only option I have found so far.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you can get stocks for the ruger, however you must do some research for them.
    try these
    http://www.richardscustomrifles.com/customriflestocks.htm
    http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan/hunting/ruger.asp
    http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/
    and theses require the most work from you
    http://rifle-stocks.com/

    hope that helps
    d-a
     
  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Welcome back. After 25 year layoff and mostly bowhunting I got the urge to build another long range rifle.

    If you like laminated there are several good choices.

    Boyds

    I am having a Boyds varmint thumbhole put on one gun. The Boyds site is slow and irratating to use but the stocks are reasonabley priced.

    Richards microfit is a little more expensive but has some interesting colors

    microfit


    High cost end is a Mac A-5 for the price you can buy a new car, a used pickup and a new coondog.

    A-5

    Just my advice, you probably can't get a gun built by this coming hunting season anyway so you should just get what you have ready to go again and spend time figureing out what you really want to build.
     
  10. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Though unconventional I have had excellent results with one of these from Hogue. My Ruger 77 MKII 25-06AI is crazy accurate. This stock a drop in. No work required of any kind. It has a full length aluminum bed block that fits really well. It has a nice recoil pad and the shape along with the material makes it a real favorite. The all weather stock my rifle came in had something very wrong because just the addition of this stock cut my groups from 7” to ½”.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    Hired Gun,
    I like your setup. Looks like it would be in my price range and doable.

    A few questions:

    What model is the stock? It looks to have a larger fore end.

    Was the stock a drop in for your heavy barrel?

    I'm not familiar with the 25-06IA. In the pics it looks like a necked down Weatherby Mag round of some sort.

    My problem seams to be the "Magnum" barrel and recoil lug. Most manufactures list stocks for SA and LA varmint and standard barrels.

    Lucky me I have a LA magnum barreled action. Some of the manufacturers specify the need for a reinforced recoil lug and Magnum contour barrel channel.

    I will have to contact Hogue and see what they have to say.

    Thanks
     
  12. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    My gun started as a Ruger MKII All Weather in 25-06. The reason I bought it is because it does have the heavier 24" magnum contour barrel. It is the same as a 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag. The 25-06AI is just the improved version of the 25-06. I can shoot regular 25-06 factory ammo or after it's fired it blows the case out to the improved version which holds about 7 or 8 grains more powder. This allows me to shoot 100 grain Partitions at 3550 fps and 75 grain V-Max's at 3850 fps. With the 75-grain bullets it actually shoots .2" to .3" all the time. I have shot a lot of crows and a few squirrels with it out as far as 400 yards.

    I sold my factory stock for about $50 on Ebay and then bought the Hogue. I only have the use of my right arm so I will never shoot with a bi-pod or put much forend pressure on it so I bought the regular pillar bedded model for long action Ruger. It was about $90 delivered. It was a drop in. It fits perfect but is not really free floated. The barrel channel just makes nice light even contact on both sides of the barrel but not underneath. It seams to dampen the barrel vibrations.

    If I were you, I would step up to the full-length aluminum chassis model. Midsouth Shooters Supply has it for $167.61. I would check around for the best deal. I love the rubber feeling. It is very quiet and grippy. This is my go to gun when it's really crappy out. The forend is a little wider than stock but it's not the full varmint profile. Hogue has that one for a bull barrel, which would most likely leave you fully free floated out of the box. I like mine sealed up so pine needles and not as much water get under it. You might notice that I did put a full mirror polish on my action and bolt. I am drawn to shiny objects. The whole package gets a lot of attention on the range. Most don't think much of it until I retrieve a target or two. Then everyone wants to shoot it. The factory trigger is set right at 28 ounces. With the Leupold 6-18 it is pretty easy to run some nice groups. The rubber really knocks down the felt recoil.
     
  13. Chesapeake

    Chesapeake Member

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    Update

    I tested the stock Ruger with several types of factory ammo:
    Winchester supreme 180 Nosler Accubond
    Winchester supreme 180 Nosler Partition
    Winchester Plain 180
    Remington 180 core Lokt

    These are just what I had on hand except the accubonds.

    They all performed about the same. The Remingtons grouped a bit tighter but on average they were all in the 1.5 inch area at 100 yds. This is with a 3-9 scope.

    I ran 5 of the accubonds through my Chrony at 8-9 feet. They ranged from 2966 to 3004 fps(24" barrel). This seams like a bit of a variation but I have no frame of reference. How much could this be improved with the average hand loading setup?

    Note: We ran 3 of my buddies 300 WSM Win. Sup. Accubonds through with the same spread from 2944 to 2980 with a 22 inch barrel.

    I got the Hogue stock and have floated the barrel, but still need to work a little on the magazine well, door plate fit. Sanding rubber isnt exactly fun, but it is doable.I like the fit and feel of the stock. I have a 4.5-14x42 Burris Fullfield II on the way to top it off.

    My new question is with the scope. The entire eye piece turns to zoom this model. What does a person use for scope covers in this situation. I would think the flip-ups wouldnt work.

    My next task will be to have the trigger reduced to the 2.5-3 pound range.
     
  14. youarenotcrazy

    youarenotcrazy Well-Known Member

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    With the Burris, since the whole eyepiece turns when you zoom the magnification, you're basically limited to scopecoats or the bikini-type covers that will come shipped with the scope. Like you know, the Butler Creek flip-ups will at some point interfere with your bolt travel.

    Were the groups you fired 3 shot or 5 shot groups? Were they fired from a rest, bipod, sandbags? If you are NOT going to handload I would purchase several more different types of ammunition and go from there. This rifle should be capable of shooting the distance you desire (600 yds) with acceptable accuracy, but you'll just have to keep trying different ammo til you find what she likes.