window licker
Well-Known Member
I think you would be happier in the long run using the defiance action to begin with, rather than redoing a Remington.
Snowy Mountain Rifles wants your input on ideal walking varmint rifle
- Thread starter gebhardt02
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ebd10
Well-Known Member
.257 Roberts
1-10" twist
#2 Standard Sporter
24"
75 grain V-Max
Bell & Carlson Sporter Stock
Coyote w/ black webbing
Extra stud for bipod
Timney adjusted at about 3 pounds
Top that combo off with a 6x36 scope, and you have a decent walking varminter that is easy to shoot AND carry!
1-10" twist
#2 Standard Sporter
24"
75 grain V-Max
Bell & Carlson Sporter Stock
Coyote w/ black webbing
Extra stud for bipod
Timney adjusted at about 3 pounds
Top that combo off with a 6x36 scope, and you have a decent walking varminter that is easy to shoot AND carry!
YOSEPPY
Well-Known Member
Hope Im not to late in this. I'd like a 6x47 lapua 24" barrel as close to a Sendero as I can. 1-8 twist for a Berger 105 hybrid McMillan A-5 jewel trigger. I'd also go with a .243 win.
gebhardt02
Well-Known Member
I sure appreciate everybody's input on this the last several days. I've been out of town on vacation and didn't have much time to check in, so I've got a lot of catching up to do.
Geb (short for Gebhardt, my last name)
Geb (short for Gebhardt, my last name)
1. Caliber/cartridge: 6xc
2. Twist rate: 1:8
3. Barrel contour: #5
4. Barrel length: 26"
5. Specific bullet to be used: Berger 105 Match VLD
6. Stock of choice: McMillan A5
7. Stock color/camo pattern: Desert Tan with black webbing duracoat and sniper gray cerakoat on metal
8. Stock options: Adjustable saddle cheek piece
9. Trigger: Kepplinger single set trigger 2.5# when its not set and 6-8 oz when it is.
This is identical to the build that I am planning next other than I am using the 260 Rem and a lighter contour. The single set trigger allows you to focus in on the really long pokes.
2. Twist rate: 1:8
3. Barrel contour: #5
4. Barrel length: 26"
5. Specific bullet to be used: Berger 105 Match VLD
6. Stock of choice: McMillan A5
7. Stock color/camo pattern: Desert Tan with black webbing duracoat and sniper gray cerakoat on metal
8. Stock options: Adjustable saddle cheek piece
9. Trigger: Kepplinger single set trigger 2.5# when its not set and 6-8 oz when it is.
This is identical to the build that I am planning next other than I am using the 260 Rem and a lighter contour. The single set trigger allows you to focus in on the really long pokes.
gebhardt02
Well-Known Member
So here is what I'm noticing from everybody's input. It seems the 22 cal bullets are preferred but in a larger case capacity than the .223 gives, and the 22-250 seems to be the most popular so far with the 243 and 223 a tie for second. The 6mm bullets also are popular but cartridge wise are split between a few different cartridges. Bullet weights for the 22 cal run from 55-75 grains so the barrel should be twisted appropriately to stabilize the heavier bullets. By far the most requested barrel length is 24". The barrel should be slightly heavier than a sporter weight barrel but not overly heavy like on a tactical type rifle. A Krieger #4 Heavy sporter seems to fit the bill and is close in contour to other contours requested. Fluting seems to also be highly requested.
For the stock, I am seeing a lot of requests for a stock shape with a narrower forend, and a normal sporter type grip is also the favorite. Being that we would like to build this rifle to suit all sorts, I would like to stay away from stocks with cast-off or shadowline cheeks so the lefty shooters (such as my wife) can also feel comfortable with it. The McMillan Remington Varmint stock has a 2" forend and trim grip. The HTG would also be a nice stock along with the Manners MCS-T. An adjustable cheek is a huge benefit on these stocks so I am happy to see many of you have requested such a feature. Colors seem to be a desert oriented type with accompanying color on the metal. Two studs is pretty much the norm up front and one in the rear.
Here is what I'm coming up with based these parameters:
Caliber: 22-250
Bullet: 55-75 grain
Twist: 8
Contour: Benchmark barrel for Krieger #4 Heavy Sporter, fluted.
Length: 24"
Flutes: yes
Stock: Manners MCS-TA with lightest fill, Inlet for SMR 3600 action and PTG BDL hardware, two bipod studs in front one in the rear. LOP set for 13.25".
Color: Molded in desert sage
I'll get a quote worked up on this and get an ESTIMATED price posted. Thank you to everybody that posted. I think these specs will make a fine walking varminter. We'll get things ordered this week.
Geb
For the stock, I am seeing a lot of requests for a stock shape with a narrower forend, and a normal sporter type grip is also the favorite. Being that we would like to build this rifle to suit all sorts, I would like to stay away from stocks with cast-off or shadowline cheeks so the lefty shooters (such as my wife) can also feel comfortable with it. The McMillan Remington Varmint stock has a 2" forend and trim grip. The HTG would also be a nice stock along with the Manners MCS-T. An adjustable cheek is a huge benefit on these stocks so I am happy to see many of you have requested such a feature. Colors seem to be a desert oriented type with accompanying color on the metal. Two studs is pretty much the norm up front and one in the rear.
Here is what I'm coming up with based these parameters:
Caliber: 22-250
Bullet: 55-75 grain
Twist: 8
Contour: Benchmark barrel for Krieger #4 Heavy Sporter, fluted.
Length: 24"
Flutes: yes
Stock: Manners MCS-TA with lightest fill, Inlet for SMR 3600 action and PTG BDL hardware, two bipod studs in front one in the rear. LOP set for 13.25".
Color: Molded in desert sage
I'll get a quote worked up on this and get an ESTIMATED price posted. Thank you to everybody that posted. I think these specs will make a fine walking varminter. We'll get things ordered this week.
Geb
liltank
Well-Known Member
Sandwarrior
Member
Geb,
I just read the last post you put up in my e-mail before responding to this.
I really have to question why you put it out to the masses what they want, when all they wanted is what they can go down to the store and buy right off the shelf.
What you described is exactly that with the exception of the twist being a 1-8". Off the shelf right now, one maker Savage, makes a 1-9". That twist will allow for heavier .22 cal bullets. But, .22 cal heavies come nowhere near what 6mm or 6.5mm heavies will do at long range. And still have more lattitude with bullet weights.
My suggestion is toss out all the stuff you can buy over the counter. Start again, with items that are truly custom. Including rounds you can buy over the counter, but not in all bullet weights. Make this a custom rifle. Not a custom rifle that copies what you can buy already built.
I just read the last post you put up in my e-mail before responding to this.
I really have to question why you put it out to the masses what they want, when all they wanted is what they can go down to the store and buy right off the shelf.
What you described is exactly that with the exception of the twist being a 1-8". Off the shelf right now, one maker Savage, makes a 1-9". That twist will allow for heavier .22 cal bullets. But, .22 cal heavies come nowhere near what 6mm or 6.5mm heavies will do at long range. And still have more lattitude with bullet weights.
My suggestion is toss out all the stuff you can buy over the counter. Start again, with items that are truly custom. Including rounds you can buy over the counter, but not in all bullet weights. Make this a custom rifle. Not a custom rifle that copies what you can buy already built.
gebhardt02
Well-Known Member
Define "truly custom." What we are going to build would be considered "truly custom" except for the fact that a customer isn't specifying the exact details. This would be similar to many other shops that produce spec built rifles such as GAP's Gladius, Hospitaller, etc. What I've attempted to do is gather the most popular options and specs for this type of rifle and roll them into a single rifle. We will be building this off of our SMR 3600 action, which is produced for us by Defiance Machine. I believe this action to be more custom than a factory Savage or Remington. We are also using a stock that isn't found on mass produced rifles, a top quality barrel that isn't found on mass produced rifles, trigger, bottom metal, etc. This isn't stuff you can walk into any store and buy as a single rifle.
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from though. I just thought that this would be a nice way to determine what would be most popular in a "custom" rifle for this purpose and then build one. We could obviously chamber it for any other caliber or build a rifle to a customers specs including different stock, barrel contour, or what ever. I understand that there are so many different opinions and thoughts for what each person might want. This is just one particular rifle with what seem to be highly popular choices.
Geb
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from though. I just thought that this would be a nice way to determine what would be most popular in a "custom" rifle for this purpose and then build one. We could obviously chamber it for any other caliber or build a rifle to a customers specs including different stock, barrel contour, or what ever. I understand that there are so many different opinions and thoughts for what each person might want. This is just one particular rifle with what seem to be highly popular choices.
Geb
Sandwarrior
Member
Sorry it came off wrong, if it did.
All I'm saying is there really wasn't a whole lot of uniqueness in what you boiled the final rifle down to. I agree, what you give as a good gunsmith is better than what you can get off the shelf. Meaning std. factory action (untrued), barrels, and stocks.
Caliber choice and barrel/bullet to match were my biggest disappointments. There is a lot out there on the cutting edge. When it comes down to 22-250's launching 55-70 gr. bullets, that is not, IMO cutting edge. I thought a lot of guys came up with some good suggestions. Anyhow, a mix such as this was bound to produce some vanilla flavoring. Again though, as you said with good gunsmithing, it's like the real stuff. It makes it taste a whole lot better.
-good luck with this.
All I'm saying is there really wasn't a whole lot of uniqueness in what you boiled the final rifle down to. I agree, what you give as a good gunsmith is better than what you can get off the shelf. Meaning std. factory action (untrued), barrels, and stocks.
Caliber choice and barrel/bullet to match were my biggest disappointments. There is a lot out there on the cutting edge. When it comes down to 22-250's launching 55-70 gr. bullets, that is not, IMO cutting edge. I thought a lot of guys came up with some good suggestions. Anyhow, a mix such as this was bound to produce some vanilla flavoring. Again though, as you said with good gunsmithing, it's like the real stuff. It makes it taste a whole lot better.
-good luck with this.
gebhardt02
Well-Known Member
You are right, there wasn't a whole lot of "uniqueness." What I did was keep track of the calibers suggested, stocks, barrel length, etc. and then determined what the most popular choices were based off of this information. There are so many good choices for cartridge selection that you can get dizzy trying to come up with the "best" for everything.
It was easily apparent that the majority of folks wanted a lighter contour barrel and the length most requested was 24". We can certainly build any other caliber and I'd be more than excited to build a 6XC or 243AI. I was just trying to find the most popular choices and bring them all into one single package, and the 22-250 was it. I think an 8 twist barrel will stabilize the bullets most commonly used for harvesting fur or even just sending heavy bullets at LR.
I'm sorry to have disappointed you in the selection of components. I'm still pretty excitedto see how this turns out though. I might have to talk the wife into letting me build one for our personal collection. I'll keep this thread updated with progress on this rifle.
Geb
It was easily apparent that the majority of folks wanted a lighter contour barrel and the length most requested was 24". We can certainly build any other caliber and I'd be more than excited to build a 6XC or 243AI. I was just trying to find the most popular choices and bring them all into one single package, and the 22-250 was it. I think an 8 twist barrel will stabilize the bullets most commonly used for harvesting fur or even just sending heavy bullets at LR.
I'm sorry to have disappointed you in the selection of components. I'm still pretty excitedto see how this turns out though. I might have to talk the wife into letting me build one for our personal collection. I'll keep this thread updated with progress on this rifle.
Geb
window licker
Well-Known Member
The 1-8 will work for bullets up to the 80 grain mark, I have a lilja 3 groove on my 22x47 lapua and have had zero problems with stability with the 80 grain jlk or the berger vld past the 1k mark. who's barrels are you guys using?
gebhardt02
Well-Known Member
We'll use a Benchmark for this one.
Nimrodmar10
Well-Known Member
I know that it has become chic to shoot long heavy bullets in 22 cal rifles but I wonder what your custom 8 twist barrel will do to the light, thin-jacketed bullets that a lot of us like to use on varmints or coyote and fox hides we want to sell. I don't like exit holes.
I tried to shoot some .223s with a 50 gr. SX bullet in my M4 with a 1-8 barrel and they turned to smoke about 50 yards down range. They were only loaded to about 3000 fps so it was not the speed that melted them, it was the twist. I'm betting the other thin-jacketed bullets will do the same. Most of us that use a "walking around" varmint gun don't shoot 243 weight bullets (69-80 gr.) in our 22-250s. We shoot 45-55 gr. bullets. You can slow down the barrel twist for my part.
I tried to shoot some .223s with a 50 gr. SX bullet in my M4 with a 1-8 barrel and they turned to smoke about 50 yards down range. They were only loaded to about 3000 fps so it was not the speed that melted them, it was the twist. I'm betting the other thin-jacketed bullets will do the same. Most of us that use a "walking around" varmint gun don't shoot 243 weight bullets (69-80 gr.) in our 22-250s. We shoot 45-55 gr. bullets. You can slow down the barrel twist for my part.
