Smokeless powder issue

[Tulie]

I live in NM and our wonderful Game and Fish in the infinite wisedom has deemed that smokeless powder is to be illegal out of a muzzleloader for hunting in this state. Our rules came out for 2011 and initially they also deemed Blackhorn to be illegal but it took very little complaining from some of the hunters and low and behold it suddenly became legal well to be more appropriate, it was always legal but was inadvertently included into the rules according to a commision member.

I have written our 4 commissioners each 2 times and just recently got a reply from two of them. Not very responsive and for sure not interested in what this hunter has to say.

Anyway, is anybody else out there having issues with smokeless powder being illegal? I'm going to keep pushing the issue but don't have a lot of hope. There aren't that many folks who use it and my arguments seem to have fallen on deaf ears. Makes no sense though, maybe we should not allow magnum centerfires, keep deer hunting to 30-30's or less and don't allow premium bullets or scopes over 4X. No fast flight bows and no compounds for sure no sights on them and no way any overdraw or crossbow allowed. These guys have determined to play high and mighty rulers and are tying some of our hands with our ability to cleanly take game by using smokeless. Really insane but I guess I should consider the source.

 

[Hntbambi]

If you look, it's been illegal for since 2009. I think that the state is trying to protect the idiots that may read, hey I can use smokeless powder in my muzzleloader and actually try it. There does seem to be a lot of how do you say...intellectually challenged people in NM.

I have a Savage 10MLII and do shoot smokeless and even smokeless duplex loads so I am not one of those prudes that think it's a bad idea. But, I can get much better groups from my Omega with BH209 or my Knight Disc Elite and BH209 than my Savage. Plus, carrying my Savage on a elk hunt would really suck.

 

[Tulie]

Actually it's been illegal for longer than that if you will check. As for the Savage, both of mine are super accurate for muzzleloaders in my opinion. 1-1.5 inch 3 shot groups at 100 is the norm and the main one accounted for my one muzzleloader bull elk. One shot with a Hornady 300 XTP at 176 yards and he went maybe 3 yards and was down for good. Completely pleased with mine.

I've had a Knight and a Traditions previously. The Knight shot good patterns until they replaced the barrel then it was acceptable groups but not even in the area of the Savage and the Traditions for what it was, was okay. It actually shot better then the Knight sometimes. The key to the Savage groups was the sabot and bullet combo and the seating pressure.

BH209 may shoot as well, I'm going to check it out but please, cost wise it's insane how much that stuff costs. I use Reloader 7 in my Savage and it's much, much cheaper than the BH. The one jug I just got was 28 bucks plus tax for 10 oz. That's crazy plus I doubt I will get the velocity I do with smokeless.

Won't deny there are some challenged folks here but that is the same anywhere and here it seems a lot of them are in public office!

 

[jimbires]

check into this . I read somewhere that NM has classed BH209 as a smokeless substitute and that makes it illegal to use in muzzy season . Jim

 

[Hntbambi]

Old news Jim. Look at the online proclamation, they have reversed that decision. It was on page 6 under Definitions and Terms - Muzzleloader. The blacked out portion is where it used to read "Blackhorn 209".

[FONT=&quot]You are correct in the fact that this product should not have been identified in our Big Game and Trapper Rules and Regulation booklet. This was not part of the rules voted on by the Commissioners. This product was added by mistake to a section of the proclamation that simply helps clarify commission rules for our public. As the rulebook was being reviewed it was overlooked.

The Department is modifying this in our on line Big Game and Trapper Rules and Information booklet and will take additional action to make hunters aware it is not a prohibited powder substitute.

We appreciate you bringing this to our attention. The Department or Commission had no intention of identifying this product specifically as prohibited and we will take steps to rectify this mistake.

Tod Stevenson

Director, New Mexico Department of Game and Fish[/FONT]

 

[Tulie]

That's right, they "accidently" put that in the rules and didn't mean to. Actually they got all sorts of feedback after initial publication of the rules and it was pulled within a very short time. They are calling BH a "hybrid" powder so it's not smokeless. It's all somebody's agenda and they want the bow hunters and rifle hunters to benefit and the muzzleloader hunters to suffer. There is an avid bow hunter on the comission who (I heard second hand) stated that he felt the muzzleloader hunters were having too good of season and that they had too good of tools and it was hinted that he was behind the smokeless ban and the attempt at the BH ban. Don't know that for a fact but it would add up.

Pretty counter intuitive it seems to me, they want us to harvest cleanly yet they make a method of doing it with the approved tool illegal. Since the election there will be changes in the G&F and one comissioner told me that additional changes would come after that.

 

[MTBULLET]

First of all, if you arn't using a patched round ball with black powder and traditional iron sights, it AIN'T MUZZLE LOADER HUNTING !

 

[Tulie]

I load from the muzzle so it must be! Either that or it's the strangest magazine I've ever used!

 

[jimbires]

Old news Jim. Look at the online proclamation[/u], they have reversed that decision. It was on page 6 under Definitions and Terms - Muzzleloader. The blacked out portion is where it used to read "Blackhorn 209".

thanks for keeping me straight . Jim