SMK wrong bullet choice?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by rost495, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Ok the placement sucked somehow. But that was due to a deflection. I tried the 69 SMK in my 223 and hit the leg bone of a buck. Not large. Probably 120 on the hoof. Broke the bone, no penetration after that. It was the bone connected to the shoulder blade that covers the heart area. We followed for over 4 hours trying to get another shot in the clear to no avail and finally lost the blood trail totally.

    SMK have to be larger bullets to use on game?

    Not starting a flame, just curious as to why it went wrong. Most spent 69s I see on the rifle range are intact in the berm with little or no expansion. I was very surprised at this.

    FWIW, Jeff [​IMG]
     
  2. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Not to start a pissing contest but the 223 is kinda on the light side for deer. I think you might want to step up to a bigger cal at least a 22-250 or 220 swift if you are going to stay in the 22's. As for the matchking failing how close was he when you shot him? Most people here that shoot matchkings are doing so at longer ranges with bigger cals so the bullets work fine under those conditions.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Rost495,

    You are asking alot from a very little bullet with a thin jacket and light lead core not designed for game in the first place.

    I am not a fan of using any Sierra Mk under 6.5mm on deer size game and for elk and such I only consider the heavy 308 and 338 MK bullets as game worthy simply because they have the weight and S.D. to penetrate enough to easily get the job done.

    Matchkings in .224 and 6mm are in my opinion best suited to paper punching as they do nto even perform well on p.dog sized game unless driven very fast.

    I would also agree the 223 is lacking most everything needed for a good deer round. I am not saying it has not and can not be used on deer but it is an extremely speciallized round for this use and bullet selection is critical.

    There will be those that say they shoot deer all the time at 400 and 500 yards with the 223 and thats fine I guess, in my opinion it is not an adiquate deer round and you just witnessed why.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Agunner012

    Agunner012 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with dakor here too. The .223 is a little light on deer, yes I read how Eskimos killed Polar Bears with a 22 rim fire and all those other good stories...... But for deer I think I would step up to at least a 22-250, or can the .22 altogether and go for something a little bigger. No flame intended.

    Andrew
     
  5. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Ok Guys

    I've shot many barrels out with the 223. I could have solved the problem by simply head shooting but don't have a clue why I didn't try that, but the shot had to be quick. I'd heard all the pros about using the SMK for hunting. I always feel that shot placement is the true key. In this instance something was hit that was not seen. So I was not able to control placement. Had I shot for the head it would have most likely been a clean miss. Which would have been much better.

    You've answered what I wanted to know. MK but only the larger ones. No one ever clarified that and I paid the price for it last weekend. I've shot so many 69s in matches I should own stock.....

    I was just curious since so many say the MKs are so good. And in my experiences they normally DON"T expand so I was somewhat taken aback by what appeared to be the result of a varmint type hollow point. I've shot a bunch of deer out to insane distances with the 75 amax. Thats probably what I should have stuck with but I wanted a mag full of ammo.

    BTW for those interested in my feeble thought train, I'd suspected the chances were much higher to run into a large group of feral hogs in that bottom and wanted something fit for knocking out a few before the group got away....... and since we were going so far off the road, that M4 clone with its dot scope and only weighing about 5 pounds seemed much better than a 10 pound shotgun or deer rifle..... Not expecting a deer really.

    And then there are those that argue the 270 is enough for Elk and larger...... Comparisons are similar, size vs caliber. My suspicions are the deflection somehow started the expansion early before the bullet hit.... I do know that on an elk I'm uncomfortable with anything less than 338 diam.......

    I'm kinda hoping all the above is an excuse to sell something and end up with a 50 beowulf upper. [​IMG]

    PS thought I posted distance-- it was 50 yards or so. Only about 2700 fps though. And yep, i've got a couple of 300 Wtbys I could have drug into the swamps. After it was all done I wished I'd taken the 590 and slugs like I almost did to start with. It was my poor choice but a well learned lesson. I won't argue that at all. It just seemed foolish to drag a 300 with a big scope into the swamp.

    Thanks for the input, and all the civil replies. Its a rare sight that allows that all the time. Jeff
     
  6. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Don't eat your self up over it. That kinda stuff happends to everyone. That is how we learn. I would say at that distance and velocity I would have figured that bullet would have been able to punch through the shoulder and make it to the lungs. [​IMG] Even with a thin jacket you would think some of the bullet would still make it through the shoulder on a deer.
     
  7. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    I've killed a pile of deer with the 69 Sierra as loaded in the Federal GMM 223 ammo. I suspect it was just a bad situation... the round may have just gone a little high on the shoulder and never entered the chest (pleural space) cavity to get lungs. I mostly used it for head shots but did a lot of double lungs too.. it's marginal for sure and requires good placement but as stated things didn't go quite correct.... Live and learn, folks lose deer to much larger rounds than this, be extra careful and picky.
     
  8. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    Not quit the same critter as you dealt with but I had this 25-06 Ackley pushing 85 grainfers up near 3800 and I let my friend take it while I wathced from pobably atleast
    I mile away and he ran into a hear of hogs picked the biggest boar and shot...Perfect hit the hog was running downhill only about 40 yards away on the first shot.both front legs folded under his belly and he slid in the wet leaves for a few feet and the stood up and shook it off! he was only about 250lbs big but not huge! so my buddy was getting ready to dump another one when he seen this guy stand back up so he shot again same side, this shot the pig turned and ran straight down the backside of this canyon thats whete I lost sight! ...so my buudy tells me he is sneaking down it really steep and he can here this pig coughin so he spots him about 70 yards down the hill caughing up blood bam shoot again this time opposite side... the pig turned again and ran straight downhill.. he made it all the way to the bottom and was climbing the other side when by buddy shot a fourth time and droped him...anyway to the important part.. bullet penetration... not sure what one made it through but only ONE! did he had two hols on one shoulder about 1" apart and 2 holes on the other shoulder about 2" apart...I would think maybe the last shot when he was climbing this was about a 150 yard shot?? I don't know what do you guys think? thes were all Balllistic tips and we found blue plastic and copper jackets just mangled about 1" in on 3 shots and the last one only managed to just hit the rib cage on the opposite side. ..now he was coughing up blood on the second shot but all of these except the last was under 70 yards. Another Bad choice on bullets... just didn't expect to run into a nice boar with a thick grissle shield..we usually only ran into big heards of sows on this particular ranch. [​IMG]
     
  9. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    What I think, and I own a 25'06 Ackley, is that you are using an incorrect bullet, but, not by much.

    I use the 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip for everything, coyotes to mule deer, and it performs perfectly.

    The 85 is a "varmint bullet", but (as I understand it) the 100 gr. was redesigned years ago as a big game bullet with a heavier jacket.

    I use it primarily on coyotes, though. That bullet just steams right on through, which is what I want.

    Bottom line, a single load for every thing. Makes it simple.

    Good hunting. LB
     
  10. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I knew that I was kinda caught ill prepared he came up from down south and all I had really been doing was shooting deer with a dept permit out of the grapes at night,,...so was just shooting usually small does and such and the little 85 grainer would just devistate them at close range 30 yds sometimes into two pieces!! but thats all I had and handed a handfull of them to him when we got to the spot and he looked puzzled at me lol! I knew what he was thinking..I just said don't worry they will work trust me [​IMG] well they did kinda. I have to get him to dig that pic out that boar was the cleanest!! I have ever seen! he looked like he just stepped out of a car wash and even had his teeth done [​IMG] they were the whitest tusks I had ever seen ...pretty nice two over 2" exposed. he was a black and white and I just remember the whiyre was not even yellow from pissing on himself...he was just super clean...it was bitch gettin him b ack to the truck though he ended up field dressing it and he could not move it so he tucked it away and mada a mental note of where he was only the second time on the ranch and 3 miles from the truck!! so it was getting dark on him fast and I was on the road pooring down rain looking for him thinking maybe he could not see me and just came up in a different spot..well about 9:30pm I here him yelling for me and he is still at the bottom of the canyon [​IMG] well we get out of there I was dissapointed that it was so late and he didn't even have a pig to show me ..so we headed back at first light.. we made it to the pig at about 9.00am about 3hrs of hiking and I couldn't believe it we walked straight to him we got out and back up to the rode only on flat ground but still a mile from the truck...easy walk though paved road at about5:30pm we had to cut him in half and pack him out in two seperate chunks.. what a weekend!! I was toasted for work come monday!
     
  11. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    Here is same ranch about a mile from the big boar my buddy shot another day I was ill prepared not in firepower though I had loaded up some 120 partitions and took three small boars all moving targets starting from 400 and ending just over 500 I just needed somebody to help pack them out with me ..in this pick you can see I found some help and just in time cuz I was about ready to keel over .....I still drug the one and packed the other on the pack on my back and my friend gladly drug the last one for me.... think god thay were dinks!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. trader388

    trader388 Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why one should always use a 338 Lapua 300smk combo. Leaves no question. If you hit it, it dies! And dies at any distance! LOL No tracking, no questions. [​IMG]
     
  13. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    Well I do have a .338 Lapua now just a few years late lol!! [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I just got a 338 lapua last year. Got some 300 smk'k for it too. That should kill'em at 10 feet!

    I use my 7 STW for deer or my shotgun when I'm in shotgun only areas. I also use my muzzleloader in the shotgun areas when hunting field edges for a little more reach.

    I'm not going to comment on whether or not it was a matchking that was the problem. I don't have the experience with them to do that. But I will say this...I always like to use a lot of gun. I hate woulding animals, and I hate tracking them. I want them to go down quick!

    I don't really care about the rib meat anyway so I want some bang! Plus, what if you see that wall hanger? Don't you want a large gapping hole you could put your head into?

    You don't want recoil, use a .308.