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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
sleepy bullets and group size
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<blockquote data-quote="milanuk" data-source="post: 32003" data-attributes="member: 376"><p>OK. Here's one for the hardcore ballistics gurus: </p><p></p><p>I've heard the theory batted around about some guns having a tendency to shoot somewhat smaller groups proportionally at distance than they do up close. Seems to be more prevalent w/ the long spiky high B.C. VLD style bullets out of fast twist barrels. </p><p></p><p>I've seen something that certainly looked like that, where I had a gun, in .308 Win, that would fairly regularly shoot say, a 3/4" group at 100yds (0.75 MOA), then 1-1/4" group @ 200 (0.63MOA) and 1-1/2" @ 300 (0.5MOA). Somewhere btwn 300 and 600 the group size started opening up 'normally' to where it was a little over 0.75MOA @ 600yds. I've also followed threads where it would appear that this happens somewhat regularly to others. Even in shooting sports like HP, competitors are often cautioned to do their load workup @ distance, as their best 600yd load may not look that hot @ 300, and vice versa - a load that looks sweet @ 300 may not hold together for the long yard line. Ditto for Palma distances (800,900,1k) compared to 600.</p><p></p><p>Recently I've encountered a fellow who apparently has access to several Oehler 43's or else has acquaintenances who do, and is quite adamant that there is no way in heck that that could possibly take place, as it's never been documented to his knowledge over 'real' targets in the form of acoustic or radar targets; that the groups always get bigger, *always*. Given the 'anecdotal evidence' as he refers to it of my experiences, I get a lot of talk about unstable bullets making ragged holes at shorter ranges. When I point out that other people have seen this as well, I get some babble about how other people have seen aliens and believe in them as well. So at this point we've just agreed to disagree <img src="http://images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>It does have me curious, though. Have any of you long-rangers seen anything to make you believe one way or the other? I don't really care who is wrong or right, but darn it, if I'm wrong, I *really* want to know what was going on those days at the range <img src="http://images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>TIA,</p><p></p><p>Monte</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="milanuk, post: 32003, member: 376"] OK. Here's one for the hardcore ballistics gurus: I've heard the theory batted around about some guns having a tendency to shoot somewhat smaller groups proportionally at distance than they do up close. Seems to be more prevalent w/ the long spiky high B.C. VLD style bullets out of fast twist barrels. I've seen something that certainly looked like that, where I had a gun, in .308 Win, that would fairly regularly shoot say, a 3/4" group at 100yds (0.75 MOA), then 1-1/4" group @ 200 (0.63MOA) and 1-1/2" @ 300 (0.5MOA). Somewhere btwn 300 and 600 the group size started opening up 'normally' to where it was a little over 0.75MOA @ 600yds. I've also followed threads where it would appear that this happens somewhat regularly to others. Even in shooting sports like HP, competitors are often cautioned to do their load workup @ distance, as their best 600yd load may not look that hot @ 300, and vice versa - a load that looks sweet @ 300 may not hold together for the long yard line. Ditto for Palma distances (800,900,1k) compared to 600. Recently I've encountered a fellow who apparently has access to several Oehler 43's or else has acquaintenances who do, and is quite adamant that there is no way in heck that that could possibly take place, as it's never been documented to his knowledge over 'real' targets in the form of acoustic or radar targets; that the groups always get bigger, *always*. Given the 'anecdotal evidence' as he refers to it of my experiences, I get a lot of talk about unstable bullets making ragged holes at shorter ranges. When I point out that other people have seen this as well, I get some babble about how other people have seen aliens and believe in them as well. So at this point we've just agreed to disagree [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] It does have me curious, though. Have any of you long-rangers seen anything to make you believe one way or the other? I don't really care who is wrong or right, but darn it, if I'm wrong, I *really* want to know what was going on those days at the range [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] TIA, Monte [/QUOTE]
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