Sighting Zero at what distance ???

[Pdvdh]

I couldn't prove it one way or the other because I don't have the repetitive experiences, but I've read that velocity can reach a peak and barrels have a tendency to perfom optimally after ~50-60 rounds. Benchrest competition shooters would be the best source for answering this question. All I'm offering here is what I've read.

 

[Bravo 4]

I would expect a custom barrel the bench guys are using to settle down quicker then a factory barrel. When I break a barrel in I let the barrel determine, even if you don't use a chrony at least you can tell when it doesn't collect as much copper fouling. The DPMS .308 I just bought has had about 20 rounds (cleaned after each) through it and fouls like crazy. I don't know how many rounds they put through it at the factory but it took several cleanings to remove all the copper. I am about ready to just go shoot the darn thing at the range and see how she does. She might like being dirty...real dirty. I usually don't clean my rifles till they tell me to anyways.

 

[tysue]

What are you planning on shooting at at a 1000 or more yards? Most high power, long range shooters I know recommend going to a 200 gr bullet for 1000 or 1000+ shooting, as it retains velocity better. I know one guy who's using 250gr bullets. These folks are hard butt shooters out to win. I was advised to use 190s in my 308 Winchester (not mag), since the lighter bullets tend to lose velocity too fast, and though a mag probably wouldn't , can go subsonic at a 1000 yds. Only have to get the 190s moving about 2550 to stay sonic at a 1000 yds (if a bullet goes subsonic, that is drops below speed of sound, it will often become unstable, start to yaw, and go off target altogether).

There is a standard rule of thumb for how far to come up with almost and ammo. It's called the 2,2, 3,3 4,4, etc rule. from 100 you need to come up 2 moa, to be on at a 200, 2 more to be on at 300, then 3 more to be on at 400, and so forth. for my 308, I need 39 minutes of elevation to be on at a 1,000 yds, and this is probably pretty close for most rounds, though might be a bit less for a Win Mag, but not really that much less. There are targets sold that allow you to sight in your rifle for a 1000 yds, at 50 yds (and fine tune it at a 1,000 yds). Also, using this target, which is actually made for using the 06/308, you could then "check" your dots to see where they are at. Set the main cross hair at say 500, then aim where your need to on the target, with the next dot and see where you're hitting. Might find that using you main poa as 500 then the next dot would give you 600. But if not, once you've determined how far you have to come up at each yardage, put it on a piece of tape and glue it to your rifle for reference.

I think Sierra has a routine on their web site about breaking in a barrel. Some barrels are lapped to begin with , so might not foul from day one, while others, might be rough and foul for 50 shots or more. Basically, the routine is, fire a shot, thoroughly clean the barrel, fire another one, throughly clean the barrel, fire another, and so on, for 5-6 rounds, then fire 2 for another half dozen firings. Best thing in the world right now for cleaning a barrel where fouling might be, is Wipe Out. Spray it in, let it set a few minutes and wipe it out. Will definitely take the copper out. Can be gotten from MidWay. I've quit using anything else.

If you've been shooting awhile and still getting fouling, go to Corbin swage companies web site and they have a product that you can put on a tight patch and it'll scrub stuff real aggressively, and another that will LAP the barrel. Might also want to look at Midway for the Dave Tubb fire lapping set up which has bullets enbedded with different amounts of grit. Fire the set through the barrel, in order, and should have all the roughness out.

 

[.25MOA]

What are you planning on shooting at at a 1000 or more yards? Most high power, long range shooters I know recommend going to a 200 gr bullet for 1000 or 1000+ shooting, as it retains velocity better. I know one guy who's using 250gr bullets. These folks are hard butt shooters out to win. I was advised to use 190s in my 308 Winchester (not mag), since the lighter bullets tend to lose velocity too fast, and though a mag probably wouldn't , can go subsonic at a 1000 yds. Only have to get the 190s moving about 2550 to stay sonic at a 1000 yds (if a bullet goes subsonic, that is drops below speed of sound, it will often become unstable, start to yaw, and go off target altogether).

There is a standard rule of thumb for how far to come up with almost and ammo. It's called the 2,2, 3,3 4,4, etc rule. from 100 you need to come up 2 moa, to be on at a 200, 2 more to be on at 300, then 3 more to be on at 400, and so forth. for my 308, I need 39 minutes of elevation to be on at a 1,000 yds, and this is probably pretty close for most rounds, though might be a bit less for a Win Mag, but not really that much less. There are targets sold that allow you to sight in your rifle for a 1000 yds, at 50 yds (and fine tune it at a 1,000 yds). Also, using this target, which is actually made for using the 06/308, you could then "check" your dots to see where they are at. Set the main cross hair at say 500, then aim where your need to on the target, with the next dot and see where you're hitting. Might find that using you main poa as 500 then the next dot would give you 600. But if not, once you've determined how far you have to come up at each yardage, put it on a piece of tape and glue it to your rifle for reference.

I think Sierra has a routine on their web site about breaking in a barrel. Some barrels are lapped to begin with , so might not foul from day one, while others, might be rough and foul for 50 shots or more. Basically, the routine is, fire a shot, thoroughly clean the barrel, fire another one, throughly clean the barrel, fire another, and so on, for 5-6 rounds, then fire 2 for another half dozen firings. Best thing in the world right now for cleaning a barrel where fouling might be, is Wipe Out. Spray it in, let it set a few minutes and wipe it out. Will definitely take the copper out. Can be gotten from MidWay. I've quit using anything else.

If you've been shooting awhile and still getting fouling, go to Corbin swage companies web site and they have a product that you can put on a tight patch and it'll scrub stuff real aggressively, and another that will LAP the barrel. Might also want to look at Midway for the Dave Tubb fire lapping set up which has bullets enbedded with different amounts of grit. Fire the set through the barrel, in order, and should have all the roughness out.

Great Quote Tysue...thanx heaps i will take it all on board.....

 

[tysue]

I just thought of something. When we're shooting, we use iron sights, so the 2,2 3,3 thing might be a bit off, as we're aiming 6" high when using a 6 o'clock hold, at 200 yds (we never shoot at a 100 except practicing at short range where we don't have a longer range to use). But try it. Sight in dead on at 100, then shoot at 200 and if 4" low, you'll know you have to come up 2" at the 100 yds mark to be on at 200. Then shoot at 300, and if 6" low there, will know you need another 2" up at a 100, and if that works, then the 2,2 3,3 thing is going to work pretty close.

If you look at the National Target Company webb site, I think they carry the sighting in target I was telling you about. You aim at the bottom aiming point and adjust the impact to the correct height for the distance you want to shoot to. My 308 is sighted in 39" high at a 100 yds, to be on at a 1,000.

There's another site about long range Match shooting, and the guy who runs it is a nationally known long range shooter, and he might be able to give you some closer coordinates for your WM.

I'll see if I can locate the site name and get back with you.

Okay, try longrangerifleteams.com, that should work. The folks who run this forum are long range, highpower, shooters.

 

[tysue]

Try longrangerifleteams.com, that should work. These guys all highpower long range shooters, or most are, and the guy who runs the site is.

 

[JamieD]

I always zero my rifles at 100 yards. Than use my Target knobs or Mil dots from there. Keeps it simple.

Hope it helps,
JamieD
Wolf Precision
All Hogs Go to Heaven

 

[tysue]

The sighting target I was mentioning though, is only for 50 yds use, as goes to like 20" high at that range. It can be used to determine clicks up, for various ranges, then go use those factors for the real ranges. Once you get the tweaked ones, can use those from there on out. Come back to a 100 yds. But then will know who much elevation to dial in for any given range. Many shooters (hi-power) I know come all the way back after each range, so they don't forget and dial in the new clicks up, on top of what they had at say 300 yds. Using iron sights, I can see the rear sight is UP, and have it marked for various ranges, so easy to see where I'm at. In the matches we shoot, no scopes are allowed, except in the Wimbledon match.

 

[jonoMT]

Up until this year, I typically used either a 300 yard zero or a MPBR zero typically around 265 yards for my .308s. While I load test out to 300 yards and shoot whenever I can at distances out to 1200, I switched to a 100-yard zero for three reasons:

1) A 100-yard zero is far less susceptible to wind or any other error that might be magnified by shooting at distance

2) Like an increasing number of tactical scope users, I rely on a zero-stop on my scopes. I have plenty of travel (27 mRad, for instance, with my Premier) + a 20MOA base, but if I set the zero-stop at 300 or 600 yards, I will have to hold under with the reticle to take shots closer in. That's not terrible, but not great either.

3) Also, at least with my .308 ballistic profiles, a 100-yard zero means never having to hold under since all the drops are greater than zero.

If you don't have the necessary elevation or zero-stop, there's nothing that says you can't first zero at 100, then re-zero at 300 or whatever.

 

[danlevoyageur]

I saw the link of Burris range dot, i saw also that in 300WM, the bullets are hunting bullet, if you reload i am sure that you reload with better ballistic bullet (Ex Lapua scénar with BC= 0.521), and in this case,the dots are at others distances than in the link.
I suggest that you reroing at 200 or 300 yards (meters for me: i'm French, sorry)
and you make YOUR ballistic table (for example, with YOUR reload, the third dot is correct for 425 yards, it's only an example).

Good shots

Dan

 

[riergarde]

Hi there again friends, i have finally got my Long Range Rifle setup together and was wondering what distance to Zero it at ?? It's a Sendero in .300wm with a Burris Black Diamond 8-32 scope and i intend to shoot out to 1000yards .....at what distance should i zero at ?? Also the scope has the Mildot Plex which has those yardage markers for 200 300 400 500 600 yards, will they be of any use when zeroing at distances greater than 100yards ??

Thanx for any help on this....

You actually answered your own question; I haven't seen the scope you refer to. The range markings enable close calculation of shots. Once zeroed at 100 your set. the scope does the rest once you are familiar with it. I have a Horus with same markers, just figure the windage if not on your scope, my Horus has it already figure in.
Orginary scopes with just cross hairs I fell should be zeroed at half of the longest shot you intend to do. 600 yd. shot would be a 300 yd zero.

 

[digisol]

My Rem VSSF 308 is zeroed at 150 yds allowing for a 300 yd shot to still fall into the vital kill zone, sure for you it would be more correct to physically shoot whatever ammo to be used and get the ballistics for that particular ammo as I have done out to 500 yards.

The scope on the Rem is a Leupold 6.5-20X50 LRT, and while the longer shots like 400-500 require use of my range finder ( a very usefull must have hunting tool) knowing the range out in the scrub and the exact hold over makes the only variable to a kill the wind and other weather conditions.

Zero at 150 for most hunting rifles, 175 or 200 for 7mm Mag or 300WM and similar calibre, but the same problem exists when out hunting foreign ground with long shots, you must have a range finder which are pretty cheap for a good one, while at the range it's simple as you know the true distance and exact holdover amount.

Anyone that can regularly make + 500 yd shots is either very good or full of it, even snipers use another well educated head and he has both calculator and their own rifles ballistic tables, I really doubt the average hunter leaves home with all the info needed for any shots out past 400 yards.

 

[tysue]

I kinda doubt the average hunter (here anyway) leaves home with the ability to make shots over 100 yds. Indeed, I doubt 95% of "hunters" could hit anything three hundred yards away. Have had people come to our range who were "top shooters, man" and took a look at the bullseye at 200 yds, thought it was at least 1/2 a mile away, and left without shooting at all, as they suddenly remembered having something else to do. Will agree, there are folks out there who can and do shoot long range (the NRA btw, considers 600 yds to be medium range). But they are the exception. It would appear that those on this forum are some of them.

Wish I knew how to post some pictures. Could show some targets shot at 1000 yds, no bipods, etc., this is from the prone, sling and your elbows. Most are with iron sights, as scopes not allowed, except in the Wimbledon.

 

[.25MOA]

You actually answered your own question; I haven't seen the scope you refer to. The range markings enable close calculation of shots. Once zeroed at 100 your set. the scope does the rest once you are familiar with it. I have a Horus with same markers, just figure the windage if not on your scope, my Horus has it already figure in.
Orginary scopes with just cross hairs I fell should be zeroed at half of the longest shot you intend to do. 600 yd. shot would be a 300 yd zero.

Yes but I want to get out to 1000 metres/yards