Shoulder bump problem? Not far enough?

[Sully2]

Broz

I tried Sully2's idea of a shim. I took a case that was sized and measured .126"
I then slipped a .010"standard feeler blade gauge beneath the case and ran it through again.
Low and behold it worked! I got .116"! THANKS Sully2!
So I think these shell holders you describe will work. If I read this correct? they will step UP INTO the die in .002" increments from a standard shell holder?

Thanks guys for throwing ideas at me and helping me find a solution to the problem. This has been driving me crazy for two weeks now.

This might be slightly off topic.
I have all this brass. Federal was the worst followed by Hornady then Winchester
as far as finding cases that would fit. The cases that I had the best luck with was some nickel coated Winchester. What is the purpose of the nickel coating and is this type brass any good?

What are the general opinions on brass? What's best?

Thanks again, BGG

Skip's die shim kit - (7/8-14) | Sinclair Intl

Thats where I got my shims from.

I use Remington; Winchester and Lapua

The only nickle plates casings I use are for special things and I use the nickle cases to keep them segregated. The nickle flakes off though so they arent nearly as long lived as good brass is.

 

[BountyHunter]

You have said several things that make me think it is not a die problem but a setup issue.

1. Won't fit in another gun
2. Two different dies and same issue.
3. Die all the way down on the shellholder.

I would say you might be bumping the shoulder back too far and creating a very small ridge at the case/shoulder junction that actually prevents chambering.

Ask me how I know that is an issue sometimes when you put the die all the way to the shell holder. Had it happen long time ago to me on first custom rifle and dies.

Back the die off one turn and start resizing a new piece of brass until it will just chamber and then measure.

You can use the skip otto shims from Sinclair to use one die for multiple rifles by measuring the fired cases and set the die up for the shortest case and then use shims for the longer cases. Cost is about $12

The Redding competition shellholders with .002 variation for 5 holders is another good way.

 

[J E Custom]

ORRRR...you can SHIM the casing in the shell holder to get the few thousandths bump you might need.

Sound familiar??

Now that is a great Idea !!!!!!!!

We are never to old to learn something new.

I tried the shims under the case head on some different cases that required re-setting the dies just
a few thousandths and it worked perfect. I also cut the shims to fit and placed them with the die set
for later use.

Thanks for tip Sully

J E CUSTOM

 

[yobuck]

a set of competition shell holders as reccomended by others is a simple solution. sinclair offers them also. just follow the instructions in the box.

 

[Sully2]

a set of competition shell holders as reccomended by others is a simple solution. sinclair offers them also. just follow the instructions in the box.

Its not as simple as inserting a shim in the shell holder when needed....??? And a SET of "competition shell holders" is a LOT more $$ than a shim pack kit!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Sully2

The shim pack your talking about would actually go in the opposite direction of what I need. Those shims would raise the die to get the adjustments. I need the die to go further on to the case. That's where the shim under the case works to get the case deeper into the die. Hopefully the shell holder kit will do the same thing.

It was your comment about the shims that got me going in the right direction.

Thanks

BGG

 

[Sully2]

Sully2

The shim pack your talking about would actually go in the opposite direction of what I need. Those shims would raise the die to get the adjustments. I need the die to go further on to the case. That's where the shim under the case works to get the case deeper into the die. Hopefully the shell holder kit will do the same thing.

It was your comment about the shims that got me going in the right direction.

Thanks

BGG

The shims fit into the keyslot in the shell holder...RAISING it up to go furthers into the die. There is more than enough "slop" on that slot to accomodate the amount of additional shoulder moving that we both require to make our casings work.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Sure about that? It looks to me like they fit under the lock ring and raise the die but I could be wrong.

The thing I'm wondering about is most production dies already set the shoulder back too much, hence the spacers that you noted.

For an RCBS die, I can see that. The stock setscrew lock rings are junk anyway. Mine are all replaced with Hornady cross locks.

 

[Sully2]

Sure about that? It looks to me like they fit under the lock ring and raise the die but I could be wrong.

The thing I'm wondering about is most production dies already set the shoulder back too much, hence the spacers that you noted.

For an RCBS die, I can see that. The stock setscrew lock rings are junk anyway. Mine are all replaced with Hornady cross locks.

I asked if they went in the slot of the shell holder and got an affirmative I'll fid out for sure when I start using them..

 

[Sully2]

Sure about that? It looks to me like they fit under the lock ring and raise the die but I could be wrong.

The thing I'm wondering about is most production dies already set the shoulder back too much, hence the spacers that you noted.

For an RCBS die, I can see that. The stock setscrew lock rings are junk anyway. Mine are all replaced with Hornady cross locks.

You're right on. The shim fits between the top of the press and the die lock ring
Looks like Im going to have to find my lathe here somewhere in my junk pile and trim off about .002-.003 from the top of the shell holder

Damm!

 

[Bart B]

Doesn't Redding's competition shellholders start at .125" then increment in .002" steps in height? Wouldn't using them stopping against the die's bottom make the case go .002" less up into the die for each incremental one used?

Long before shims were used to push belted cases further up into dies for a short-chambered barrel, folks ground a few thousandths off the full length sizing die's bottom. There's about .090" to .010" from a belted sizing die's bottom (on the six that I have, anyway) to the belt clearance step. With a .125" shellholder height, case heads will stop about .215" to .225" below the die's belt ridge.

Belt headspace on the case specs are typically .212" to .220". Depending on the lot of brass one has, they could grind enough of the die's bottom to still use their cases without damaging the belt with the die. If one chooses to grind off their die's bottom, make the right measurements on both the die and cases to know how much to shorten the die before case belts will crunch into the die's belt ridge.

Grinding off shell holders is probably a more sensible solution; making an error on one means a new shellholder gets bought. They're a lot cheaper than dies.

Here's a link to a page with die adjustment labels that can be printed on sticky back paper, cut out then stuck on die lock rings. They simplify accurately adjusting die heights in tiny increments:

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab170/jepp2/DieAdjustment-1.jpg

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not a bad idea....

 

[Sully2]

Doesn't Redding's competition shellholders start at .125" then increment in .002" steps in height? Wouldn't using them stopping against the die's bottom make the case go .002" less up into the die for each incremental one used?

Long before shims were used to push belted cases further up into dies for a short-chambered barrel, folks ground a few thousandths off the full length sizing die's bottom. There's about .090" to .010" from a belted sizing die's bottom (on the six that I have, anyway) to the belt clearance step. With a .125" shellholder height, case heads will stop about .215" to .225" below the die's belt ridge.

Belt headspace on the case specs are typically .212" to .220". Depending on the lot of brass one has, they could grind enough of the die's bottom to still use their cases without damaging the belt with the die. If one chooses to grind off their die's bottom, make the right measurements on both the die and cases to know how much to shorten the die before case belts will crunch into the die's belt ridge.

Grinding off shell holders is probably a more sensible solution; making an error on one means a new shellholder gets bought. They're a lot cheaper than dies.

Here's a link to a page with die adjustment labels that can be printed on sticky back paper, cut out then stuck on die lock rings. They simplify accurately adjusting die heights in tiny increments:

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab170/jepp2/DieAdjustment-1.jpg

I dont need the empty brass to go LESS up into the die...I need it to go MORE. Im not getting the setback I want even with the shell holder and die crashing into one another. I have many of the proper sized shell holders because 22-250.....243....260...etc....all use the same shell holders.

 

[Sully2]

Not a bad idea....

Whats..??...not a bad idea????