Shipping firearms - Gun law in the United States -

Discussion in 'Guns For Sale' started by Lefty G-gear, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Lefty G-gear

    Lefty G-gear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Shipping firearms
    Firearms may not be mailed or shipped interstate from one non-FFL to another non-FFL but may be shipped intrastate. Personally owned rifles and shotguns may be mailed or shipped to an FFL in any state for any lawful purpose, including sale, repair, or customizing. An FFL may ship a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received. Under U.S. Postal regulations, handguns may be sent via the Postal Service only from one FFL to another FFL, or between authorized government officials.

    A person may ship a rifle or shotgun to himself, in care of a person who lives in another state, for purposes of hunting.


    Firearms delivered to a common carrier for shipment must be accompanied by a written declaration to the carrier of the contents of the shipment, if mailing to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors. Notice to the carrier is not required when shipping to one of the licensed entities aforementioned. Letter from ATF summarizing shipping responsibilities under the law:

    Gun law in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Shipping firearms - Gun law in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  2. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,031
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    And...?
     

  3. Trev08

    Trev08 Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Thanks for posting that. It should clear up some confusion. I recently sold one of my rifles on here and two of the prospective buyers I talked to said their dealers won't accept a shippment from an individual, I would have to take it to another dealer to have it shipped. One of them said it was because the ATF questioned them and asked how do they know who the rifle came from? I just thought what difference does it make? Even if it came from a person that's not supposed to have a rifle, after they ship it they don't have it any more, right?
     
  4. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,210
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    It's not a matter of law, it's a matter of if that rifle turned up stolen or used in a crime it creates a real PITA for them. If it comes from one dealer to another there's a clear paper trail and thus no question of the receiver having been involved in attempting to cover up a crime or a party to a crime yet to occur.
     
  5. Trev08

    Trev08 Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    I get what you're saying, but so what? I mean if I sell a chainsaw in a garage sale how does anyone know that it wasn't stolen or used in a crime?
     
  6. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,210
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Think long and hard about it. Firearms laws are extremely strict and you have a hell of a lot of liability to deal with both civilly and criminally.

    Any jackass can run a chainsaw shop, but it is hard to get an FFL and expensive as well. Anything that threatens your good standing with the ATF of state threatens your livelihood when you are a gun dealer and so many just want to cover their asses with an extra layer of protection.
     
  7. Trev08

    Trev08 Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    I guess it's fine with me if business owners want to run their businesses as they see fit. This is just another case of people in our ridiculously litigious society bowing to the F-in lawyers once again. Usually gun guys are all about standing up and exercising their rights and freedoms under the law. Its just sad to me to see them wuss out like this.
     
  8. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,210
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    If guns are your business your FFL license is your life's blood. Avoiding anything which jeopardizes that license is only common sense.
     
  9. Trev08

    Trev08 Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    This thread reminds me of a quote I read recently: "Arguing over the internet is like competing in the special olymics. Even if you win you're still special."
     
  10. dirtball

    dirtball Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    One of the local gunshops that I used to receive transfers quit receiving from non-FFL shippers and when I questioned him, his response was that he was getting to many "Non Transferable" weapons. That means the weapons could NOT legally be sold because of sawed off barrels, full auto option, etc.
    At that point he has to notify the BATF that he has the weapon and things get complicated for him.
    So his decision was to ONLY receive from another FFL in hopes that the other FFL would have enough sense to check it BEFORE he shipped it.

    Dave
     
  11. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,448
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    From an FFL side of things it's a huge problem "sometimes" to accept from a none FFL holder.
    #1 half the time they never put a copy of there photo ID which is required by law
    #2 They usually make a mistake like shipping ammo or an illegal gun causing phone calls and headaches
    #3 They sale the gun to a person who can't pass the backround check then makes everyone jump through hoops

    in the end it's the shops decision because it doesn't take much to make the ATF watch you or put you under review. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to get involved for something that can bankrupt them.
     
  12. Target07

    Target07 Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    I just encountered this same issue two days ago and it has happened to me in the past as well. I am not an FFL holder but I do a lot of buying/selling/trading online and, as such, I end up having to ship to FFL dealers so that they can perform the transfer to the buyer/recipient.

    I can appreciate and understand where all of you FFL holder's are coming from but as an individual I find it extremely hard to swallow when the law states that something is legal and then individual FFL dealers decide not to accept shipments from an individual. I have spoken with numerous FFL dealers that refuse to accept shipments from individuals and when asked as to their reasoning behind this I am told that it is not legal? Hello...it may be your policy not to accept a firearm from and individual but it is totally legal.

    I discussed this very thing w/ my Class III SOT dealer this time home and he said for me to start filing complaints with the ATF whenever I run into this situation and then have the purchaser of the weapon find another dealer that will accept from an individual or just don't do the deal.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't know exactly what trouble (if any) an FFL dealer can get into or if he/she would but this is what my dealer said he has done in the past and that was his recommendation.

    All this to say, I guess it is a doubled edge sword. Many fish in the sea don't know any better and when a dealer refuses to accept form an individual then some individuals will go through the extra process and extra fees of dropping it at their local FFL dealer & have them mail it to the other dealer. My dealer will not do this anymore as he has been inundated with request from people "needing" him to ship to an FFL dealer that will not accept from and individual and as such my dealer has been recommending to his customers to report them ATF? He said he is sick in and tired of FFL holder's not following the law.

    I don't know if there is any validity to "reporting a dealer to the ATF" especially in regards to something of this nature but if so it would seem that the dealer's that practice this need to be aware that sometimes when the hand that feeds them gets bit they may not get much food the next time they belly up to the table.

    Again, I don't mean any disrespect but just wanted to through my point of view out there as a law abiding second amendment rights practicing former Marine. Semper Fi.
     
  13. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,448
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Target07,
    I understand your point of view completely. But there is nothing to report to the FFL or violation that is happening. I am sure they are saying it's illegal so they don't have to exsplain there position to everyone since most people don't know any better and will just leave it at that. the FFL holder pays for the right to do so and they can run there business as they feel. That is like saying that you can turn an auto body shop in because they don't work on your type of car as an individual business they have to do what they are comfortable with. I love the fact that my FFL will do whatever to help me or any other customer out, but if they stopped it wouldn't surprise me.
    Would we all be comfortable if the FFL's turned in an individual for shipping the firearm improperly over an oversight or mistake on there part. It would suck to loose a gun and get arrested because I forgot a step in the proccess. I know my FFL will call the shipper back and try to get the correct info if there is a problem instead of just turning it in.
     
  14. Pb5320

    Pb5320 Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Target07,
    If it is such a big deal go get your FFL. Then run your shop the way you want to. That said if you are the one out 50 that ship your firearms in a 100% legal manner I am sorry most dont know the right way and those that do make simple mistakes that wind up being a PITA.