Seeking help on build

Discussion in 'Specialty Handgun Hunting' started by trueblue, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    I will be upfront and state that I have not spent much time on this forum thread, and know very little about LR handguns. I have a Russo stock on order, and have contacted Jim See for a build, but would like forum members input as well, on caliber choice and components choice for this build.

    First, alittle background. I am dealing with a cronic shoulder injury, rotator cuff, due to work. Heavy construction worker for 35 years has taken a tole on my body, and don't know how long I will be shooting rifles. Hopefully for a long time. However, I need to look at the option of hunting elk with a handgun, and take the pressure off my shoulder.
    I would like imput on calilber choice and components with this goal in mind, to take down an elk at 7-800 yards if that is possible with a handgun, and I am able to get good with it. Also, would like feedback on optics. I know this is a tall request, but maybe just tell alittle bit about what you are using for elk at longrange, and include barrel contour, twist, weight of your rig, optics,ect.
    Thank you in advice for your responses.
     
  2. hammertyme

    hammertyme Well-Known Member

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    A lot of information to respond to here in your query.

    SInce you indicate never having done anything like this before I would be at a disadvantage not knowing what you are use to shooting in a handgun. Nothing I currently shoot has the recoil of a 6" 44 mag using full house 240 grain loads.

    Punching a hole and getting your animal vs hitting with authority at the ranges you indicate will limit caliber choices. Personally I will never shoot past 600 yards at a game animal. Reloading vs buying factory also limits your choices Action used/ apparently since you ordered a stock you know the action already.
    My personal caliber choices start with the 300WSM, 300Win Mag, 338 Gibbs,338WSM and Imp, 338 Win Mag,340 Weatherby, 338 Edge (current build) 338 X378 Weatherby. The new 338 Norma should be great in a handgun length barrel. An awesome hitter that isn't mentioned much any more is the 358STA!

    Do you want a 14 pound none comfortable pack around beast that shoots and carry's from some type of motorized carrier or do you want an ultra-light that anyones kid can carry? Many here shoot 338's using 300gr SierraSMK's for the delivery energy along with accuracy at 800 plus yards. My 225's and 250 grains for my ranges do just fine.

    Neal
     

  3. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    I have an order in for a stock based on the Savage target action. As far as weight, I don't want something heavier than 10-12# scoped. To answer your question concerning experience,I have shot alot of 45ACP out of my 1911, and some 44mag out of my 3" snub nose S&W revolver. I don't like the 44mag with the 3" barrel for alot of shooting, but it is tolerable. Maybe 800yards is unrealistic with a handgun, don't know. I have never shot a LR handgun, so don't know what I am capable of with one.
    I have not ordered any components, other than the stock, so there is some flexibilty still at this point.
    If I were to put together a 338 EDGE in a handgun, what barrel length , and what velocities to expect from it.
     
  4. hammertyme

    hammertyme Well-Known Member

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    338 Edge is one that Jim See chambers for. I have a 19" barrel sitting at Jim's waiting for him to return from his elk hunt. I am getting 2860fps with a 200gr Accubond and 2770 with the 225 Accubond in the 338WSM. Faster burning powders in the short fat WSM case allow these velocities.
    I see no reason the Edge won't exceed 3000fps with the 200 grain and 2900fps with the 225 grain. Probably 2800 and change with the 245 gr Lehigh borerider bullet at .965BC or the .9?? BC 265gr GS bullet.
    These velocities are attainable with standard 1 in 10 twist barrels. I have been getting noticably higher velocities with the 3 groove Benchmark barrels.

    In my 17" 338X378 Weatherby Imp, I am getting right at 3000fps with the 225 Accubond. I am hoping to achieve the same velocity with the Edge with a 19" barrel. Ten pounds is Very Doable with the stocks I am using!

    With practice doping wind and higher BC bullets, I see no reason why you can't achieve proficiency at most any range with a good scope.

    Hope this helps

    Neal
     
  5. long450

    long450 Well-Known Member

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    That distance for ELlk with a handgun is a stretch in my IMHO. It will need to be a magnum with a long, for handgun, barrel and at least 30 caliber. Don't sound like it will be any easier to carry or shoot than a rifle.

    You better be a good tracker and don't hunt and shoot long if the snow is falling.
     
  6. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    The big 30's or 338's will get the job done, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the 7mm Dakota out to 800 yards on elk.
    In fact, my personal preference is the 7mm or the 338.
     
  7. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    long450,
    I agree that 800yards is a stretch , and realistically my limits would end up at 600yds, but it would be nice to have the capability if a person can get good with the handgun. I am not sure if they are easier to carry than a rifle, but they are easier on the shoulder, which is the reason I am investigating the possibilty of having one built.

    Ernie,
    I to was thinking of a 7mm, and will check into the 7 Dakota as you suggested.
    But I am also interested in a 338. I don't think a 30cal can do anything a 7mm can do in a handgun, so if I go above a 7, it will be to a 338cal.
    It is my understanding that you use rifle scopes on your setup, and have know trouble with eye relief ?
    Please give me a discription of your 7 Dakota components as far as barrel contour, length, scope, break, weight, stock. Or give me a link if this imfo is already on the site.
    Thanks,
    JIM
     
  8. hammertyme

    hammertyme Well-Known Member

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    In the pictured setup any reasonable caliber is possible. Plus a couple of pushing reason calibers like the 338 X 378 or the 510 Rogue which is based upon the 460 Weatherby case. Very shortly this center grip setup will be carrying a 338 Edge barrel.
    I carried a rifle for many decades and can say that carrying a rifle through the Alders of Alaska is a pain and very tiring. Carrying a handgun with barrel shorter than ones head and in many cases shorter than ones shoulder and the grip is nicely tucked under ones elbow is not only none obstructive, I never know its hooked on my pack upright.

    I have a friend that has been diligently learning to shoot long range for a couple of hunts coming up. With his 7 WSM at 7oo yards the shot on anything is a gimme. He is hitting a softball size target every shot.

    [​IMG]

    Since I have had to deal with very large bears in the flat country mostly for the past 30 years I have adopted three schools of thought over the years. Roy Weatherby and others thinking regarding.
    1. Fast bullets and hydrostatic shock. Plus the advantage of hair hold flat shooting capabilities.
    2. Big bullets going slower making big holes all the way through. Bone breaking capabilities. Elmer Keith
    3. Larger frontal areas of bullets transmitting shock and a knockout capability. Many African guides

    If one rolls all of these into one cartridge and combine with the incredibly high BC 338 bullets its pretty easy to see why the 338 Win Mag is at the top of the hunters list here in Alaska. Now if (and we have) one can duplicate the rifle 338 Win Mag ballistics from a handgun, one has a very comfortable warm fuzzy feeling when that 1500 pound bear comes to take your deer or elk away from you. Plus you are on one side of a valley or deep cut and a book deer,sheep or goat is on the other side 4-600 yards away you have the capability of putting it on the ground without much effort.

    The Alaska Department of fish and Game banned the use of the 7/284 caliber for Bison hunting decades ago for a reason. My friend and many others have taken a lot of moose here when the 7's became popular. Each of those people are now hunting with 338's to 375 Rums for the same reason when asked. Long range shots with knock down authority!
    If one tries to compare one school of thought to another, they all have merit. There is a reason why the 338 Lapua Magnum was developed. LONG RANGE AUTHORITY.
    Neal
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  9. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Jim,
    I have killed quite a few elk with the 284 win and 140 Partitions (15.75" barrel) out to 540 yards. Never lost an animal.
    With a 15.75" 7.82 Patriot XP out to 416 yards-No losses.
    My 7mm Dakota barrel is a smidgen under 18", but you could do it with a shorter barrel. Holland's new radial brake and I have used the 8.5-25's and the 6.5-20 Leupold Mark 4's with no problem. I will write more later.
     
  10. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Here is an article about using riflescopes on specialty pistols Handgun Hunter Magazine - Rifle Scopes On Specialty Handguns Scopes On Specialty Handguns
    You will have to register to read, but it should answer some of your questions.

    I have two 7mm Dakota barrels: One was a 1-7 twist Lilja (you do not need a 1-7 twist), that was set-up for the 200 grain WIldcats. The wildcats ended up not needing that fast of twist, but a very accurate combo, with a 200 grain bullet at 2706 fps. Nailed a elk several years ago @ 666 yards. Performance was great. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again given the same or better conditions. Other barrel is a Lawton 1-9 twist, set up for the 162-180 vld's. Folks at best of the west are taking elk down just shy of 1k with a 7mm Rem Mag using the 168 Berger VLD and they have had great success. The 7mm Dakota in a specialty pistol using the 168 or the 180's will equal or outrun what a 7RM can do in a rifle.
    The brake is one of Darrel Holland's Radial brakes-It is awesome.
    If I did it all over again I would have made my barrel lighter, not sure of the contour off-hand.