seating consistency problem

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by MN Hunter, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Trying to reload for my 300winn mag today. New remington brass and barnes 180grain ttsx bullets. Using H1000 - started with 77 grains max load. loaded 3 rounds - bullets would not seat at a consistent depth. First time I seated bullet it would be .04 over where I wanted it - measuring off ogive - I would put the round back in and cycle it again now it would be .03 over and so on. I checked my set up several times - everything was tight and where it was supposed to be. I then loaded 3 at 76, 75 and 74 grains - the same thing happened every time. I am using an RCBS Rock Chucker with RCBS dies. I have never loaded tipped bullets before. I can't believe this is normal but maybe it is. I reloaded some rounds for my 30-06 using sierra game kings with no problem.
    I do have a box of factory ammo loaded with the ttsx bullet that also showed variation

    HELP

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  2. wadevb1

    wadevb1 Well-Known Member

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    With the max load are you compressing powder? Those 180 TTSX's are long.

    I have very good dies and competition seaters yet sometimes I get +/- .003 between loads. Never effective my groups.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009

  3. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    The barnes book lists 72min load and 77 max for h1000. The first load I tried was the 77 grain load - I could hear the powder compressing as I cycled the load. I thought that the amount of powder could be the problem. I then went to the 74grain load - again I could hear the powder compressing. Same variation is seating depth. I have never loaded where the load has been compressed. It sounds like what I am experiencing is the nature of the beast??? Currently I am seating for the max coal of 3.40. I do have a wyatts box - my smith suggested it after he measured the chamber - don't remember that number off the top of my head - the gun is a remington sendero - sounds like it might help to seat the bullets out a little farther?
     
  4. wadevb1

    wadevb1 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing like starting out with a max load :)

    I suspected the powder was your problem and you can try seating further but how much is dependant upon how much jump you will want. I have had good results with the 180TTSX jumping .030. You could try a drop to to compress your powder.

    Many guys like H1000. I tried it with so-so results. I switched to Reloader 22 and never considered anything else.
     
  5. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why I started with 77 - seemed like the thing to do. Normally I start mid range and load a couple close to it. Have not fired them yet. I"ll start with the 74 grain and work my way up. Just surprised that I am still compressing the load at 74grains. There is no notation in the manual that this is a compressed load.
    Thanks for the input
     
  6. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    It's really, really, really a good a good idea NOT to start with a max load. Yesterday I started load deveolopment for a 300 RUM. I'm using 3 bullets and 2 powders. Hodgedon lists 100.5 gr of Retumbo as max for a 180 bullet (SPR SPBT). I started with 97.5 with a 180 E-Tip. Then stepped up a half gr to 98 gr - stiff bolt. Dont like to think what would have happened If i tried 100.5 gr right off the bat. Next I moved to H1000 with the 180 E-Tip. Nosler lists 92 as starting and 96 as max. Hodgdon also list 96 as max. I started with 93.5 and then step up a half gr again to 94 - stiff bolt. I was a warm day at 80*.

    There are good reasons not to start at max.

    -MR
     
  7. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    I know what your problem is straight up!
    Your neck tension is insufficient!
    What's happening is, when you seat the bullet, the seater plug is grabbing/sticking on the bullet and pulling it partially out of the case as it's being withdrawn from the die. The compressed powder isn't helping either, but if you increase the neck tension, the problem will go away!
    77gr's of H1000 is not an overly compressed charge, but it will still put a bit of pressure on the base of the bullet.

    You can also 'swirl' the charge into the cases using the pan from your scale and a powder funnel, this will give more room for the bullet in the case, and will most likely improve accuracy due to tighter packing scheme of the powder.

    I have this problem with my 300WM when the brass is freshly annealed, I use 2 different expander plug sizes, 1 .002" under bullet dia. for normal cases and 1 .004" under bullet dia. for newly annealed cases.
    I also use a bushing die with different bushings for the same reasons above. Depends on which rifle I'm loading for, hunting or F-Class.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  8. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    You can easily check whether its the powder compression. Just load 3 or 4 in sized , unprimed brass, no powder and measure them off the ogive for consistency.

    Remember, most factory bullets, (and many custom made bullets) can vary in length slightly. I only use Redding competition dies with the micrometer tops. I seat bullets about .005" over my desired length. Almost always, there are a few thous differences. I sit them in a loading block marked with 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. thousands over, and work the micrometer down one thou at a time.

    Tighter neck tension will help too; choose about 3 thousands under loaded neck diameter and by experimentation, select the bushing which produces best accuracy.
     
  9. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I did make one dummy up at the seating depth i wanted - no problem getting it to seat - however i did not try a couple for consistency - good point - i will try that.

    I will try adjusting the neck tension. That is the only thing i didn't try yesterday.

    I will have to check out the redding dies.

    The reason I loaded a max load is that the range I shoot at is over an hour away. I like to load 3 of each weight. I start shooting with the lowest grain load and work my way up. If I start seeing excessive pressure signs I stop - anything that i loaded above that i bring home and take apart.

    I did notice that the seating plug is leaving a slight ring around the tip of the bullet - normal???

    Thanks again for all the input
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  10. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Seating depth has no bearing on COL-----measure the bearing surface of the bullets then they will all be the same or within your sort tolerance. Common mistake do not feel bad. You want each bullet it Engage the lands the same otherwise, you are just wasting your time. I use the Buhay tool for both competition and sporter pills.\

    Also, compressed powder charges esp the stick ones are not good for accuracy as when the sticks crush in the case the coating that retards the burning rate is reduced. With more surface area the powder burns at different rate causing a change in the pressure curve during ignition which is bad for accuracy and velocity consistency. As mentioned above esp with ball powders the bullet can actually be pushed back up slightly which can cause all sorts of nightmares.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  11. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I missunderstood you to say you were starting with max.

    BTW, I had the same problem seating my E-Tips (long bullets) into compressed loads of Retumbo. I had to recam the lever several times, hearing the same crunching noise as you, before they seated to the proper depth. I think Boss Hoss has a good point which is something I was thinking about while I was compressing my powder. I would think crunching it like that would change the chemistry/surface area. If it did it in a repeatable consistant way it would be OK. Interesting...

    -MR
     
  12. 406pat

    406pat Well-Known Member

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    MN,

    Sorry if you already said this and I missed it but are you sizing your brass before loading? i know the neck tension issue has already been brought up but when I was looking through I didn't see if you were full length resizing. I've found that washing and sizing even new brass goes a long way to getting a more consistant finished product.
     
  13. MN Hunter

    MN Hunter Well-Known Member

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    The brass is brand new so I did not think to resize it.
    Forgive my ignorance - I consider my knowledge just past beginner when it comes to reloading. Is that something that should be done automatically with new brass or just when there are issues.
     
  14. 406pat

    406pat Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's generally accepted or not, just one of those things I've always done. It would make sense that new brass should be the right size, I've always bought it in bulk and usually have some necks that are out of round or a little dinged so I just size it quick to eliminate those issues. I'd give it a shot with a couple and see if that helps. I guess I've never tried it the other way so there's a very good chance that I could be wasting a lot of time on my loadings and just blowing smoke:)