Scope suggestions needed.

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by cujo7240, May 15, 2013.

  1. cujo7240

    cujo7240 Member

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    This is my first post on this forum and I'm just getting into target rifle shooting. Last year I purchased a Savage model 11 in 308 with the accutrigger and a Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40 scope. I also started reloading for 308 almost immediately.
    I joined a local range that only has a max range of 100yds. I've been reloading and shooting 155gn (Hornady A-max) & 168gn (SMK) bullets mostly and have been trying to find the best powder load using Varget. The problem is that the accuracy of my Savage rifle with the light weight polymer stock and the sporter contour barrel is so poor (1.5-2 MOA @ 100yds) that I can't see a difference in my handloads except for POI. This made me decide to go down the accuracy upgrade path and I'm trying to do this w/o breaking the bank. The first thing I've done was to buy a Choate Tactical stock with an aluminum bedding system, since it was one of the few that was supposed to work for a Savage with DBM. I did have to inlet the trigger area to fit my trigger guard with the integral bolt release and grind a little of the aluminum bedding in the magazine well, so my magazine would fit. After bolting in my barrel action to the new stock I noticed just how out of place the little sporter barrel looked in the Choate stock. I decided then that a barrel upgrade just couldn't wait, so I ordered a Shilen S7, SS 26" barrel with the Varmint contour (1:12 twist), precision recoil lug, & barrel nut from Jim Brigs at NSS along with the necessary tools to do the swap. The barrel upgrade parts and tools should arrive on Friday 5/17, so I'm hoping to have it all installed over the weekend if all goes well.
    The reason I've told you all this is I want to also install a better scope on this upgraded rifle and I'm looking for suggestions. The Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40 is not adequate for me to see the hits on target from 100yds, so I know I want a more powerful scope. This is mostly going to be used for Target shooting at 100yds, but I would like to be able to shoot out to 600yds if I can find a place set up for it.
    My price range is in the $200 to $400 range for the scope and I need to order good scope rings as well, so if you have a suggestion for these I would appreciate it (what height profile rings if you know that). Thanks.

    Jim:)
     
  2. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    A Nikon Monarch is actually a pretty good scope for the money. You should be able to find one within your price range. Nikon also makes a scope called the Nikon M-308, its pretty solid and it comes with target turrets. If you go this route get the one that doesnt have the pre set turrets so you can dial accordingly. It may be a tad over your price range however.
     

  3. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Save a bit longer, then get the Long Range Vortex Viper 4-16x50 HS Vortex Optics Viper HS 4-16x50 30mm Long Range Scope FREE S&H VHS-4313-LR, VHS-4307-LR. Vortex Viper Rifle Scopes, Vortex Rifle Scopes.
    [​IMG]
    It has an exposed elevation turret and a capped windage turret and a good reticle for wind holdover. Take note that it has a 30mm tube, so you will need new rings too. You might also keep an eye on demo specials at CameralandNY. They advertise on this forum and also at savageshooters.com forum. I got a 6-24x50 Viper PST FFP for just over $800 a while ago, so there are deals to be had on less expensive models too.

    You will need a 20 minute rail, a one piece picatinny rail gives you more options for down the road and allows you to use all your scope adjustment.

    Beware with the cheaper Nikon scopes. Some of them have very limited movements, some only 40 minutes total. Thats too little to allow the use of a canted rail and still zero the scope. A lot of the time, you have to get a Nikon with a 50mm objective before it has much adjustment and then it is still limited by the 1" tube. The M series scopes look good at first glance, but once you realize that pulling up on the turret knob disconnects it from the mechanism and you lose your zero, then it looks more like a curse or something to use exclusively at the bench. Its the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of and nobody whose life depended on it would be seen dead with one.
     
  4. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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  5. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    If he plans to shoot 600 yards 40 internal is more than enough.
     
  6. cujo7240

    cujo7240 Member

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    The Vortex scopes have been on my short list, but from my limited knowledge from one Google search :) I think a 0 MOA rail would be more correct for my 100 to 600yd range. My search said the 20 MOA rail was best for 600 to 1000yd ranges.

    Thanks to all that have given input so far. How do you know what height scope rings to get for a given scope? I know that we want to keep the scope as low to the barrel as possible w/o touching....
     
  7. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 3-12x42 and a 4-16x50 Monarch each with side focus so I know the Monarchs, but the reticles are basically useless for any kind of holdover. The elevation turret is capped and not weatherproof and it is easy to loose the caps once you take them off. Custom turrets are available, but at over $100 each they push the price of the scope up real fast. Customer service from NY state sucks.

    I have them and I use them, but I know there are better options since I started buying Vortex scopes. And the Vortex prices are not ridiculous, like Leupold and just about everything above a Leupold.
     
  8. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Scope Base Height + Ring Height - Overall Objective Diameter/ 2
    if the number is positive it should work.

    This formula will get you close but it doesn't take into account the contour of the barrel. So use at your own risk.
     
  9. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    If you go with a 42-44 scope or smaller, low rings will generally work. If you go with a 50mm scope, medium rings will work. Some of the one piece rails are higher than others, this can affect clearance. But on a bolt gun you should not need more than a medium ring for a 50mm objective. The high and extra high rings are usually for AR's. Every one of my barrels is a varmint contour.
     
  10. cujo7240

    cujo7240 Member

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    Thank you all for your input. I have decided to get a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10 x 44 scope w/ 30mm tube, 0 MOA Evolution Gun Works picatinny rail scope mount, & Vortex Precision Matched Riflescope Rings in the low height configuration.
    I'm hoping I picked the correct ring height for my rifle setup. After putting in all the values in the scope clearance equation I came up with a positive 0.315". I went over my budget and spent $522 for all of the above from OpticsPlanet.
     
  11. shaymac

    shaymac Member

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    i love my sightron siii lrh 8-32x56
     
  12. cujo7240

    cujo7240 Member

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    I got my Vortex scope, rings, and EGW (0 MOA) picatinny rail scope mount today for my Savage model 11 and everything looked good, but the holes for the picatinny rail do not line up with the ones on my savage SA receiver. I believe the problem is with the Savage screw spacing, since the Evolution Gun Works rail specs out to what is listed on their website. They list the two middle holes center to center distance of 3.925" and my rifle has 3.943" spacing, which is longer by 0.018".
    My rifle came with two piece weaver style mounts when I bought it, which will work, but I wanted to use the one piece picatinny rail for more flexibility for scope positioning and for the added support this design adds, now that I have a 26" varmint contour SS barrel attached to the action.
    My rifle is still within the 1-year warranty period, do you think Savage will send me a new receiver with the proper screw hole spacing? If they will they'll probably have to send to my FFL dealer, since the rifle s/n is on this part.
     
  13. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Adjusting the holes on the base would cost about $30-60 at most at your local gunsmith. It will probably cost more than that to send the rifle back to Savage.
     
  14. cujo7240

    cujo7240 Member

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    I called Savage and they said they would pay for shipping the rifle back for service, but it will take about 3 weeks for the repair. :-(
    I'm not sure if it matters to Savage, but I have now switched out the factory stock for a Choate Tactical stock and have also changed out the barrel to a Shilen 26" varmint contour barrel. The only thing that is original is the action and trigger assembly. Do you think that this will void my warranty? I could put the the original parts back on before I send it in for service if its going to be a problem.